Azura plates run length issues

[Motoxslow]

Re: Azura plates run length issues

A few more notes about the conditions of the press and such to consider.

1. We tend to run the ink to plate stripes on the light side as the R300 tends to streak in solids with "normal" ink stripes. No ink roller with the exception of the water roller is set heavier than 3/16". We are running the factory specs for the plate cyl. at .004 over the bearer and the blanket is .002 over the bearer for a .006" squeeze. We started with Day 3000 blankets but now we use the Patriot blankets from Day.
2. It is not a particular unit. We can blank on unit one and two, print on 3 and 4 and still have the same issue.
3. This problem happens on the first side printed, NO press powder involved. In fact, when printing the 2nd side of the sheet the image wears at about the same number of impressions with spray powder.
4. The amount of coverage definately plays a role as the larger the solid the faster it wears. Offset stocks also seem to cause the plates to wear faster.
5. AGFA did send in their peoples to do a patch check with our chemicals. The only thing that seemed to effect the emulsion was a universal plate cleaner that we immediatly stopped using. (28 months ago)

6. I am not blaming prepress for the problem. I am saying that the plates that I chose to buy appear to be the problem, not the press or the stock or chemistry. One of these things is breaking down the plate but I alson think that the plate is the problem and it is time switch to a different plate. I was hoping to find others with the same problem and what they did to resolve the problem and it appears that bagging the Azura plate is the best coarse of action at this point.

I am wondering if the paper humidity and or abrasive residue from the paper, mentioned earlier by Lukas is the culprit. Having said that, I don't have the luxury of not running these stocks and the plates should not be effected so adversly by them.

Thank you to everyone for your input, this forum is a great place to tap experience.

David

 

[Lukas Engqvist]

Good luck with changing/testing other plates

Good luck with changing/testing other plates

As far as variables go, I know that our suppliers (inks, papper, chemistry, plates) are usually not being honest with us when they do something in their products… You'd think that in the 21 century we could have trust in working relationships… anyway documenting is key and equipment like a Hygroscope (we have a Rotronic HygroscopGT) can be a worth while investment to quickly verify you are getting paper at the right humidity. Having the facts, and knowing standards is the only way to get your supplier to admit production flaws.

Well if you decide to switch, let us know how it goes, and if you continue to have problems I guess we need to rename the thread ;-P

 

[ErnieLail]

Re: Azura plates run length issues

We dont have any problems with our azura plates. We run all kinds of papers, anything from offset, litho to even 32 pt board with no problems with Azura. I dont think its as much a problem with the plate as it is you have a variable somewhere thats causing a problem. Have you tried a different brand of ink? If it wears more with higher ink coverage, logically speaking, i would think it would have something to do with the ink, blanket or roller. We use American Offset, monarch, superior and K&E inks with no problems. Another thing is i would watch the operator for an entire run and make sure they're not scrubbing the plate hard. Like i said thats the only time we have had dot loss. Also does this press take care of your higher quality items?

I would contact your Agfa rep and let them know if you cant resolve this issue quickly you are going to switch vendors. That will probably light a fire under them and get them moving on a resolution. I'm sure they can send in a plate specialist and determine the problem. They did for me when i reported our dot loss problem.

Edited by: Ernie on Aug 6, 2008 11:02 AM

 

[SteveAgfa]

Re: Azura plates run length issues

John:

Whereas I'm not trying to problem solve David's original situation
(we have qualified professionals in the field to do that), I can't
let your over-generalization just sit there.

You write - <snip>While not common, neither is it unusual.<snip>
So is an eclipse of the sun... which I would characterize as rare.

Azura leads Agfa's portfolio of chem-free and low-chemistry products.
80% of such processless products in use are Agfa technology. And now,
we are introducing (at drupa) our faster Azura TS. Azura's Thermofuse
technology continues to fit the widest gamut of pre-press and
pressroom applications of any/all processless or chem-free plates.

While not trying to problem-solve David's issue, my personal
experience is that such situations can be traced back to chemistry
changes on press, or insufficient plate exposure. With Azura's wide
exposure latitude, cumulative laser changes - weakened lasers, or
dirty optics, don't manifest themselves until that minimum exposure
threshold is (not) reached. Without proper laser energy, the latex particles
don't properly fuse to the substrate, which will cause premature wear -
either chemical or mechanical.

So, after 4 years of in-market success, I'd characterize Azura's
occasional hic-up rare, rather than something that is not "unusual".

Regards.

 

[Green Printer]

Re: Azura plates run length issues

Form rollers water and ink durometers if they are excessive they can cause an abrasive action.
Also roller settings if the stripe to the plate is larger than the stripe to the vibrators the plate will be driving the forms and not the vibrator rollers this will cause plate abrasion.

The amount of slippage is usually related to ink volume.

Edited by: Pat Berger on Aug 7, 2008 6:42 AM

 

[plaehn]

Are you running the 1st or 2nd generation azura plates?

 

[Lukas Engqvist]

Don't mean to hijack the thread, but just recently have signs of too high humidity in CTP rooms (slip sheet paper seems to be wavy at the top edge in plate stacker). What temperature/humidity do you have in your CTP rooms?

 

[beermonster]

well we've had issues aplenty - and after further investigating i can pretty confidently say they are all ink and press related. we can slow the ctp down - but that will be a last resort only - to further harden the plate if you like, but i'm reluctant.

my plate supplier and a plate expert are coming in soon to help. i have a feeling the azura may have highlighted a few bad press practises - in a strange way.

i still love the plate and so far, after nearly 2 months, i have a grand total of 8ltrs of waste/diluted gum, saved hours spotting out on press and have not had to worry about fit issues.

however - the gum can turn your hands green if ya shove your hands in it!!!!

 

[Lukas Engqvist]

Allways clean AFTER you had your sandwich, or tastes yucky ;P

 

[beermonster]

haaa now that is very true