better cutter polar55 vs. challenge 305

[kristianeyman]

hello all!

i would like to know if anyone has experience with either of the two of these cutters. i need something to cut down gang run business cards and flyer, and for all around cutting of other items. max size would be 13x19", most jobs coming of a qmdi, and various xerox digital engines. i currently have a challenge model 20, but need something i think more professional!? thanks!

 

[ondemandbindery]

Both machines will do the job. Before a decision was made I would inquire about service. Research who is within close proximity that can provide the service. To me that is a top 3 criteria for making a purchase.

HTH,

John Weaver

 

[kristianeyman]

service for both is good, i think at hand parts for the polar would be better (i'm in mexico) . with limited space, i think the polar would be the better choice? i do like the challenge for the air bad, but i think cutting 1000 pieces of sulfated 12pts is not that difficult with out air?

 

[ondemandbindery]

Polar. End of conversation for me. A bottle of Slide will get you around the airbed for what you are processing. You get the name Polar on your machine and at the end of the day it has a much better resale value.

JW

 

[kristianeyman]

john,

thanks for all the help! one question for you as you seem to have a good handle on post press (cutting). one without much experience (myself) what is the best way to cut or program a machine like the 55? i am a newbie to cutting, and not anyone here to really show me, so hope you could help me out with a explanation.

if you get something off the press, do you measure out the crop marks and then program in the cut?

does your pre-press dept. or person have the same gang layout for all jobs?

trying to think of how is the most efficient and precise way to cut, as wasting a job of <5000 4x4 sheets is a hard pill to swallow! i am a 2 person shop and run the press and will have to do all of the cutting as well. plus i always like to know how things should work and look, rather than someone pull the wool over my eyes! thanks, kristian!

 

[ondemandbindery]

The quick answer is a cutter like this has the capability of storing a program for your cutting sequence. That is a major advantage when you have previously cut your projects without this feature. A lot of people I have seen through the years do not really understand how to make proper use of the cutter in production. There are ways you can cut your projects that save time and money. And a good knife operator knows how to handle the paper. It can truly be the "man and machine become one". I can cut projects and literally by the tone of how a stack of paper sounds against the backguage tells me if I have jogged the paper properly. The more you cut the better you get. And a high speed steel blade will be great for you application. I have seen airbeds get people in trouble also because they do not take the additional time make sure the air cycle is off prior to cutting. For your sheet size you will not miss it.

To answer the question about how to make things more productive, it is just like everything else we do in this industry in that you have to think the project all the way through. I still hold to my guns that the first Priority in a Print shop is achieve the best quality possible for any project with a given set of Parameters. Still to this day, no Print, no shop.....

You will be able to store programs in your computer on the knife. Try to make layouts as consistent as possible whenever the jobs allow. That means if you are Printing business cards with bleeds always use the same lay out if the specs. will allow for the jobs. It is simple for imposition, printing, and finishing. Prepress knows there is a consistent orientation, the Pressroom knows there needs to be a consistent image position, and the Bindery can key up the program in the knife and as long as the 1st 2 cuts are achieved properly (tail and off guide respectively), they can use the existing program and eat the work up.

I like crop marks. They are safety nets for anyone in Printing INHO so I recommend that you implement that system. I am not a Prepress guy but I do know there are some very good programs out there to help you with this stuff. I also like a layout sheet. From a knife operators standpoint, if you have skill you can just about make an entire cutting program and never touch a sheet.

The good news is if you are a small shop all of this is controllable for you and your projects do not change many hands before the final project.

Waste is sometime a given in the Industry. Just make sure you are recycling your scrap. It will help a little. I really do not know your shop so I can't give great input on this subject but my theory is use as much of the substrate as possible to print.

HTH,
John Weaver

 

[rcreveli]

For the size you are dealing with have you considered a smaller programmable cutter. Challenge and Ideal make nice cutters in the 20" wide range.

I really wanted the challenge Titan 200 but we decided on a Digicut (Ideal 5222) I cut 64 lots of business cards today 21 up full bleed off of our Canon 6010. The only reason we chose the 5222 over the titan is because they were able to give us a better deal on some other equipment.

 

[TheProcessIStheproduct]

Polar sucks!!! yep I said it, most of the people chiming in probably have Polar 137, which yes are nice, but I had a Polar 66, and it was a hydraulic knife in the same class as the Challenge 305, but Polar 66 is way more expensive, parts are more, and electronics suck, so when it stops working you are going to have to call H-burg for service and break out your wallet. I have a 305 and it never breaks and when it does, you just smack it with a hammer and it starts back up... If you are looking at a Polar 92 and up in size, then it will run circles around a Polar 66 or Challenge 305, because it has a centrifugal clutch and will be way faster...

 

[kristianeyman]

I also have a polar 66 in my other shop and i have to say i dont like it in comparision to the older 78! the model that i am currently looking at is the polar 55 em, it seems to be much more well built that the 66, as well as its compact enough to fit into my cramped space! if you have another suggestion for a programmable challenge cutter that would be close to the same dimensions as the 55em i welcome the reccomendation as this is really the constraint i have! build, programmable, size restrictions. thanks, kristian!

 

[RGPW17100]

Polar sucks!!! yep I said it, most of the people chiming in probably have Polar 137, which yes are nice, but I had a Polar 66, and it was a hydraulic knife in the same class as the Challenge 305, but Polar 66 is way more expensive, parts are more, and electronics suck, so when it stops working you are going to have to call H-burg for service and break out your wallet. I have a 305 and it never breaks and when it does, you just smack it with a hammer and it starts back up... If you are looking at a Polar 92 and up in size, then it will run circles around a Polar 66 or Challenge 305, because it has a centrifugal clutch and will be way faster...

We had these exact results as well. The polar 66 are junk. Side frames on the side the cutter draws down is make of aluminum and bends after about 6 months and there is no way to square it. We were scoring on the cutter and broke a weld joint on the foot pedal and could not get a welder in there so we had to drill holes and put L brackets with bolts in it to make it work again. I like the polar program features over the challenge (challenge did not have the cut and repeat) but you get used to it pretty fast