Bizarre issue with Ricoh flipping every fourth page 180 degrees

[bcr]

- Under finishing tab in CWS job properties what option have you selected under "shift mode?" And does changing it affect the issue?

- also under Finishing - is "rotate 180" set to "off?"

- Is there anything defined under VDP settings in job properties such as record length etc?

- Does it happen when printing something from the fiery itself - I.e. job log or other multi page test document?

- does the machine have a Ricoh controller and if so does printing via that have the same outcome?

- are you using windows 11 on your workstation (assuming you aren't printing directly from the fiery controller PC )

- are all pages of the same size and orientation and defined as the same paper type? Nothing under mixed media?

- are you using any settings under layout such as "orientation override", "scale to fit"?

 

[bill kahny]

Even more bizarre: the issue seems to be related to the delivery end. If the destination is set to "Auto Tray Select", then SOMETIMES it flips every fourth page. If the destination is set to "Finisher Shift Tray" then it seems to work fine? I'm absolutely baffled on this one.

If it is "sometimes" it is in the job settings. When a job does it and you reprint it by clicking on the job in the printed folder of the fiery, changing the delivery try option at that point will fix it? I don't think it will. You have auto rotate or page orientation going on somewhere.

 

[noelward]

I have a Ricoh Pro C7100x. Recently, we had to replace a fan in the Fiery Command Workstation PC tower that controls the Ricoh, and then reinstall the Ricoh to Fiery. Ever since then, it has this incredibly bizarre issue where it flips every fourth page upside-down. This only happens when you're printing from a document with multiple pages, however. If you print multiple copies of a single page document, there are no issues.

It doesn't seem to be related to a specific program, as I've had it happen printing from both InDesign and Acrobat. I've never seen something like this before. We're using the exact same print commands as before, and for the life of me, I can't track down why this might be happening.

Any thoughts?

I didn't read all the responses so I may have missed it. Are you printing an application file or a PDF? I've had PDFs do some decidedly weird things, especially out on InDesign. If nothing else, the PDF may show the page as being flipped. If it does not it may be a RIP issue, as I think PDF creation is pre-RIP.

 

[MMPIndyWest]

If it is "sometimes" it is in the job settings. When a job does it and you reprint it by clicking on the job in the printed folder of the fiery, changing the delivery try option at that point will fix it? I don't think it will. You have auto rotate or page orientation going on somewhere.

Here's an example of the "sometimes":

This morning, I printed a 36 sheet, double sided document, printing from InDesign. I printed one copy with the cutting guide layer on to check the registration. Linked screenshots were the printer settings used.

It worked perfectly, registration, no flipping of pages, everything was correct.

I turned off the cutting guide layer, and told it to print 26 copies of the job. Those were the ONLY two changes I made. It then proceeded to flip every fourth page 180 degrees.

Absolutely maddening.

 

[ReproElectroProspero]

Here's an example of the "sometimes":

This morning, I printed a 36 sheet, double sided document, printing from InDesign. I printed one copy with the cutting guide layer on to check the registration. Linked screenshots were the printer settings used.

It worked perfectly, registration, no flipping of pages, everything was correct.

I turned off the cutting guide layer, and told it to print 26 copies of the job. Those were the ONLY two changes I made. It then proceeded to flip every fourth page 180 degrees.

Absolutely maddening.
View attachment 292935View attachment 292936

What version of Command Workstation are you running? The screenshot seems like it may be CWS 5.0 or earlier, which is like 15 years old at this point...I'm wondering if perhaps you are suffering from an ancient CWS bug that has been patched out in CWS 6 or CWS 7.

If you are running CWS 5, is there any reason you haven't updated? I would try installing the newer versions of CWS and see if that helps with the issue.

 

[bill kahny]

The "cutting guide layer" in indesign isn't in your screen captures. That's were something is happening. my guess is guide set to correctly sized page and every 4th sheet is bigger. Give us a screen capture of the layout and media tabs after checking you page sizes in indesign.

A good practice is to print 1 copy from indesign, check it, and print more copies from the print folder on the fiery itself.

 

[MMPIndyWest]

The "cutting guide layer" in indesign isn't in your screen captures. That's were something is happening. my guess is guide set to correctly sized page and every 4th sheet is bigger. Give us a screen capture of the layout and media tabs after checking you page sizes in indesign.

A good practice is to print 1 copy from indesign, check it, and print more copies from the print folder on the fiery itself.

The product is a 7"x9" booklet. It's being printed on letter sized paper and cut down to the finished size. The InDesign document is set up as an 8.5 x 11 sheet, with the cutting guide as a 7x9 outline on a separate layer. I really can't imagine a world where this is the issue. We've been setting up our documents this way since before I was involved at the shop, and we've never had this problem before.

Cutting guides on:

Cutting guides off:

 

[MMPIndyWest]

What version of Command Workstation are you running? The screenshot seems like it may be CWS 5.0 or earlier, which is like 15 years old at this point...I'm wondering if perhaps you are suffering from an ancient CWS bug that has been patched out in CWS 6 or CWS 7.

If you are running CWS 5, is there any reason you haven't updated? I would try installing the newer versions of CWS and see if that helps with the issue.

It's CWS 5. Quite honestly we haven't updated mostly because we weren't aware there was a newer version. I've caved and called the tech out to see if he can fix the issue on this, so I'm planning on asking about updating CWS to the newest version then as well.

 

[Shawnd]

If he updates the fiery make sure to back it up beforehand.

 

[TJPrinter]

It's CWS 5. Quite honestly we haven't updated mostly because we weren't aware there was a newer version. I've caved and called the tech out to see if he can fix the issue on this, so I'm planning on asking about updating CWS to the newest version then as well.

You can download CWS from Fiery, no need for a tech. You just need to register with Fiery now to access the latest versions. Put the Fiery software monitor on the pc and you'll get notified when they update to a newer version. It seems like they're constantly updating or fixing with newer versions.

 

[Milo Wilson]

When the fiery was reloaded, we all current patches applied and up to date?

 

[Dmiller35]

Did you ever get this resolved?
The only thing I can think of that drives us wild sometimes is the (absolutely useless) "select paper tray from PDF page size" option in Acrobat.
That little checkbox seems to get clicked and always throws us for a loop. No one ever remembers selecting it. I've seen it do weird things to files.

 

[MMPIndyWest]

Did you ever get this resolved?
The only thing I can think of that drives us wild sometimes is the (absolutely useless) "select paper tray from PDF page size" option in Acrobat.
That little checkbox seems to get clicked and always throws us for a loop. No one ever remembers selecting it. I've seen it do weird things to files.

Not yet, but the tech was out here the other day to look at it. I guess he missed some patches when he was here last time, so he's coming back to install them in a day or two. Additionally, I found out that the reason we haven't switched to a newer Fiery version was that when we tried to in the past, we found out that it's impossible. Apparently the Ricoh machine we have never had a Fiery rip made that's compatible with Windows 10, and none of the newer Fiery versions are backwards compatible with Windows 7, so we're stuck with CWS 5. Oh well. It works well enough for us.

 

[grobeson]

Not yet, but the tech was out here the other day to look at it. I guess he missed some patches when he was here last time, so he's coming back to install them in a day or two. Additionally, I found out that the reason we haven't switched to a newer Fiery version was that when we tried to in the past, we found out that it's impossible. Apparently the Ricoh machine we have never had a Fiery rip made that's compatible with Windows 10, and none of the newer Fiery versions are backwards compatible with Windows 7, so we're stuck with CWS 5. Oh well. It works well enough for us.

Hi @MMPIndyWest

I'm with Fiery.

Ricoh did use to sell upgrade kits for the C7100/C7110 servers (E-83A & E-43A) to bring them to Win10 IoT Enterprise 2016 LTSB. Though I am honestly not sure if it's still available - maybe ask your tech to check with Ricoh USA?

Even if you're not able to upgrade your OS, there is a much newer version of CWS available to you.
Since your Fiery server is running FS150 Pro software, you can install CWS 6.8 (only 2 versions back from our latest) on a Win10 client or Mac client in your shop and connect to your Fiery server.
CWS only cares what version of Windows you have when you try to install CWS on your Windows server itself.

One caveat: if you're using a dongle for Impose/Compose, the latest version of CWS you can use is 6.5

Either way, you can definitely move past CWS 5

This page will give you more info: For Cutsheet Users

Hope this helps!

 

[narseman]

The machine in question doesn't even have a document scanner. It's used for production only. As for the reinstallation issue, we have an odd issue with our power (It's a city power grid thing, we can't do anything about it) that occasionally screws with the Fiery connection, and causes the machines to need to be reinstalled. The fan issue was discovered after we realized a reinstallation needed to happen.

If it was just a case fan, I would probably not worry about that.. The bigger problem might be the grid power. A brown out, or a spike most certainly could damage the boards in the RIP, and/ or change an otherwise invisible setting.
Lastly.. From own experience, looking hard at a bunch of settings and seeing the same thing consistently, only to find later on that you were seeing what you expected to see, and missed the change. Just saying..