Black Screen Angles

Bigscottd

Member
Hi there, im in need of some help,

Im imposing a A4 Full colour letterhead and the customer has asked for the Black screen angle to be set at 90 degrees so that the tinted text has a smoother edge. If I change it will I have to change any of the other screen angles?

Current Setting is:
C - 15
M - 75
Y - 0
K - 45

Thanks in advance
Scott
 
Hi there, im in need of some help,

Im imposing a A4 Full colour letterhead and the customer has asked for the Black screen angle to be set at 90 degrees so that the tinted text has a smoother edge. If I change it will I have to change any of the other screen angles?

Current Setting is:
C - 15
M - 75
Y - 0
K - 45

Thanks in advance
Scott

Keep in mind that when two colors are less than 30º apart there is a risk of moiré. Also, running the black at 0/90 degrees might make the black screen a bit more visible.

These angles should work for you:
C - 45
M - 75
Y - 15
K - 0/90

best gordon p
 
Hey Scott, just a caution - if the tint screen edges are vertical and horizontal, then 45 degrees is already your best option. Running the dots parallel to the edges of the screens will typically produce unpleasant results.
 
Hi Scott,
I have to go here with halh, since most (if not all) CtP recorders use sort of a corkscrew kind of outputting. There is probably a better word for it, but I mean that the laser is recording the plate while the plate is spinning (or vice versa) and the beam is constantly "drawing" a line which means that the halftone lines are slightly tilted, which then again affetcs screening when it is in perfect 0/90 degree angle. Usually 45 degree angle is a good solution for the black colour.
 
Hi Scott, you might also try to run your job at a higher line screen. I will use 200 or 220 and get good results. Talk to the pressman about dotgain and you may have to cut back a little on your curve, but usually if I have this situation I let them know and they can compensate. Speak to the customer also and let them know you are doing something special just for them and make them feelmunique. Has worked for me even with our larger customers.
 
I want to add an option. Keep the angles but add a slight hairline at a slightly darker tint, (or inner glow). The line should be about the same size as a trap so 0.1 - 0.2 pt, and you must not have any configuration to fix hairlines. This is basically doing the same as sharpening would do in photoshop. Inner glow does the same, but is slightly more subtle.

Actually printing in grey balance would also give a smoother fill. Eg a 40% black can be printed with CMYK 12 8 8 30, or use a spot colour at 100%.
 
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Not to be sarcastic . . . but why do the customers always know more than we who have been doing this for decades . . . I used to argue with customers then I made suggestions . . . now with certain customers i just do what they ask and let them get what they ordered . . . and then they ask why does this look like this . . .
 
This is a case where a halftone proof is very useful. Or better yet, as JoelAdler1 noted, if you are printing with a stochastic screen you wouldn't have this problem in the first place. You could even differentiate yourself from other printers by saying that - "At our shop we don't have to play guessing games with screen angles in order to deliver integrity in print".

oooops! I'm raving. ;-)

Apologies. Gordon p
 
Black screen angle

Black screen angle

45° is always used for the black because of it's "harmony" with the normal horizontal and vertical edges of halftoned art. While even a rosette is a moiré pattern, this (45/90) angle is the least objectionable of all the moiré patterns. For the same reason that square-out halftone and 4/C pictures frame best at 45°, logo art edges will be MUCH more noticeable at 90°. There only has to be a minor slant in a line to create a horrible appearance.

My personal opinion is that God gave us a natural "level" with the horizontal placement of our eyes in our head. We are hyper-sensitive to things not straight- this is why we naturally want to straighten out crooked pictures on the wall. Putting black on anything but 45° may technically work out OK, but aesthetically, not so much.

Herb
 
The black is traditionally set at 45 because it's the strongest color and 45 is the weakest perceived angle. Even at high resolution, when the black is set at 0/90 the rows and colums of dots will be very perceptible. Please proof it with a halftone dot so your customer can see what they'll be getting--I'll bet they reconsider.
 
45° is always used for the black because of it's "harmony" with the normal horizontal and vertical edges of halftoned art. While even a rosette is a moiré pattern, this (45/90) angle is the least objectionable of all the moiré patterns. For the same reason that square-out halftone and 4/C pictures frame best at 45°, logo art edges will be MUCH more noticeable at 90°. There only has to be a minor slant in a line to create a horrible appearance.

My personal opinion is that God gave us a natural "level" with the horizontal placement of our eyes in our head. We are hyper-sensitive to things not straight- this is why we naturally want to straighten out crooked pictures on the wall. Putting black on anything but 45° may technically work out OK, but aesthetically, not so much.

Herb

I don't think that moiré is involved.

There are two main reasons that the halftone ancients decided that black should be angled at 45°.

First is a phenomenon called "visual integration of tone."

The human visual system is limited in the detail that it can resolve. At a certain size threshold you can no longer sense individual objects but instead integrate tiny objects together into an average tone. Halftoning relies on this integration phenomenon which allows the viewer to average millions of halftone dots into areas of perceived tone. You don't see the dots - you see the average tone they represent.

There is a directional component to tonal integration. Within an area of tone, fine diagonal patterns are perceived slightly less well than horizontal or vertical patterns. This may be because in nature, most of the significant visual edges are horizontal or vertical - trees, roads, the horizon - and features of interest tend to interrupt these edges. Bottom line, halftone screens look smoother at 45°, where they are less apparent than at other angles - especially 0°.

The second reason is what happens if the graphic does not allow for a complete dot to be formed at the edges of the image. Here's an example:

Angleintegration.jpg


The upper graphic is screened at 0° and the lower is screened at 45°

Note the micro dots on the top and left side of the upper graphic. They will have two possible impacts. 1) they may make the graphic appear smaller that it should be. 2) Due to their small size they may not print which would make the graphic smaller than it should be.

However the bottom graphic where the screen is at 45° does not have this problem. Also, if there were micro dots around the edges they would be averaged out when lost while there would still be large dots at the perimeter to maintain the size integrity of the graphic.

BTW, If you walk a few feet away from your display and look at the above graphic you'll probably see the phenomenon of directional visual integration of tone. I.e. the pattern in the lower graphic should look smoother than the top one.

best, gordon p
 
Just changing angles will not work. some letters are slanted or with serifs and you come back to square one.
you may try shifted angles by 7.5 degrees (old scitex style). beware that you should keep the 30 degrees between the main colors c,m,k and 15 for y.
if you put the black on 90 or 0 you are bound to see plate artifacts. this is why originaly y is in 0.
shifting can help.
so:
y - 7.5
c - 22.5
k - 82.5
m - 52.5

if this is not enough go up with the screen ruling and edges will become smoother.
good luck
EG
 
my 2 cents

my 2 cents

Remember that most of the lines in letters do in fact run on a 90 degree axis. So the idea that they would ask for this is not so far off. Run at the highest linescreen you can. Run the yellow at 45, and the black at 90, and be done with it. Remember the customer is always right. ;)
 

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