Cannon Imagepress C810 - What do you think???

[Mike619]

Hi all. I am strongly considering getting a canon imagepress C810 with a POD Deck Lite-C1 and catch tray and I was interested in finding out what everybody's experience is with this machine. Of course, all input is welcome. I would be interested in anything anyone has to say about the machine. Good stuff, bad stuff, you name it.

how does it run all different kinds of paper? Are there particular papers that are more of a challenge to run?

how does it do with carbonless paper?

how does it do with 130#gloss cover in 19 x 13 size?

what about label stock? Pre-die cut labels on 8.5 x 11 sheets?


how often is the machine down for service? How good is the service when it is down? How quick is the service?

does anyone have any of the attached stitchers or booklet makers? how do you like those things?

how is the registration from front to back on all different types of papers?

how has the supply chain been for getting things like parts, drums, toner, feed wheels, any kind of filters, etc?

what’s the maximum amount of clicks you have gotten on your canon machine?


A little bit of background. I am coming from a Xerox Versant 180, which I pretty much like with the exception of the lousy drums and second BTR assemblies that don’t last nearly as long as they should, particularly when you run carbonless paper or coated stocks. my next press is going to likely either be a Versant 280 or the canon image press C810.


so what do you all think? Any input is super greatly appreciated.

 

[SoggyWinter]

Canon just released an update to the C810, the V800, along with a V700, V900, and V1350. I would recommend going to one of their demo centers (New York City area if you're in the US) and testing on your own. 130# cover might be a reach for the C810, but I think the V series has a much higher support weight rating.

 

[SoggyWinter]

Does the Versant 280 use the same drums and BTR and the 180? If so, you might be in for a bad time.

 

[kslight]

No exp with the Canon, but installed a Ricoh 7210x in March and it’s been a champ for everything you list above. I’ve placed like…3 service calls since then? 4? Over 700k mostly 19x13 impressions on it. Parts so far seem to last at least as long as the machine’s counter says it should, if no problems I run things longer. No parts / supply issues, I have many items like drums on the shelf (user replaceable) but almost never need to change anything unless the machine prompts for it (unlike Xerox equipment where i was always changing drums and fusers), techs usually have parts also. I think drums are rated over a million…I’ve put one in so far, replaced due to an IQ issue. Lots of toner on the shelf, no fuss to get more.

Registration is nearly perfect (best I’ve ever achieved).

The previous machine we had was a KM 6085, which I wouldn’t even recommend to my competitors….

 

[Robohopar]

I’ve been running a C710 for a few years now. I blame all my bad impressions of my machine on Canon themselves. They over promised and under delivered. My sales guy said yes to everything I asked him the machine will do.

The canon is a great machine, for its smaller footprint, I ended up doing a decent amount of paper stock from NCR’s to 16pt card stock C2S 13x19. Although NCR’s aren’t recommended, there’s no reason you shouldn’t run them if you need to. 16pt card stock runs well…now. Used to always jam up until it just kinda started working. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I added a professional booklet finisher and a pro puncher with a few dies to crease and 41 hole punch. The creaser come in very handy for books. I also have the poorly designed 3 larger tray stack. The fiery G250 is a very low grade add on. I’d recommend getting the upgraded fiery. They replaced mine once already and have needed to reinstall the entire software about 5-6 times now.

Registration is fair minus at best. Had floppy large tray stackers(compared to my 7090) and needs a registration scan almost everyday sometimes twice a day. Gets annoying. But keeps registration through the job decently well.

Maybe this is just my particular machine, but color calibration absolutely sucks. Density through the sheet is horrendous. My local Los Angeles canon guys came out and looked at the issues and recommended me to buy a “real machine” and upgrade to the C10000 vs the 710 I have.

Got my jobs done for the most part. Some jobs are unacceptable as far as color goes and honestly probably unachievable on this machine. I have about 2M clicks on mine but barely ran the machine the first two years. Supply chain was undisturbed. They have swapped out my pro puncher I think 3 times now - very irritating but service has always been good to me as far as changing parts even if I’m a bit unhappy with the print quality.

I’d recommend the next level up machine or check out the newer models of this machine.

 

[Sertech]

I service it. It's actually a very good machine. No active registration though, so that's not great. I would recommend the prismaSync over fiery. If there are problems with calibrating lighter paper, there's a way of using the recommended media and set it up so the machine makes up for difference. I've not had people complain about print quality other than when things wear. I've got one machine with over 19 million on it, I know of another with over 10 million. Rated life is 10 million. Stitchers, booklet makers, pro punch are ok. The pro punch is made by GBC most other manufacturers sell the same thing, same with plockmatic booklet maker

 

[printing656]

From my experience with Canon, I would not recommend it.

 

[signsny]

I don't think you should go for it.

 

[tngcas]

We've been very happy with our C810s. My only experience to compare with is Xerox and the quality is lightyears ahead of Xerox for sure. Service and uptime has also been better than Xerox was this last year. We've been running the 810 since December and then added a second 810 and a 910.

how does it run all different kinds of paper? Are there particular papers that are more of a challenge to run?
-- It james up on some heavier stocks and for some reason flipping the stack upsidedown always fixes the problem immediately.

how does it do with carbonless paper?
-- We run a lot of NCR forms and so far no problems.

how does it do with 130#gloss cover in 19 x 13 size?
-- Haven't done a ton of 19x13 size but it does fine on the 18x12 size

what about label stock? Pre-die cut labels on 8.5 x 11 sheets?
-- No issues at all with label stocks, way way better than Xerox. It also runs transparency sheets 1000 times faster. I think I shed tears of joy the first time I had to run them because it just... ran them with no jams and Xerox would only run like 5 sheets at a time.

how often is the machine down for service? How good is the service when it is down? How quick is the service?
-- I'm sure this is going to be localized but our service at both our shop locations has been timely and quick.

does anyone have any of the attached stitchers or booklet makers? how do you like those things?
-- we have both and again, lightyears ahead of xerox in this department in terms of ease of setup and accuracy.

how is the registration from front to back on all different types of papers?
--- ah, this is a weaker point on this machine. The registration tends to drift no matter what we do. It resets though when you reprint the same job so if we are doing a longer run we print it in batches so the registation will reset (usually 250 sheets). We are using Fiery though and I think it's the culprit like sertech says.

how has the supply chain been for getting things like parts, drums, toner, feed wheels, any kind of filters, etc?
--- we haven't had any issues, the auto toner resupply system has been super. I don't have to think about it at all or place the orders the toner just arrives.

Robohopar: The fiery G250 is a very low grade add on. I’d recommend getting the upgraded fiery. They replaced mine once already and have needed to reinstall the entire software about 5-6 times now.​

We've run into this issue with both our 810s and same with having to reinstall multiple times. Our 910 has the better fiery and doesn't have this problem.

Robohopar: Some jobs are unacceptable as far as color goes.

We solved this problem by using the spectrometer and then forcing the canon to use one color profile for all our papers so that it doesn't try to do it's own thing. It got us way better color consistency than their built in color profiling system that has 5 different options that are too hard to keep in-spec.

 

[Robohopar]

We've been very happy with our C810s. My only experience to compare with is Xerox and the quality is lightyears ahead of Xerox for sure. Service and uptime has also been better than Xerox was this last year. We've been running the 810 since December and then added a second 810 and a 910.

how does it run all different kinds of paper? Are there particular papers that are more of a challenge to run?
-- It james up on some heavier stocks and for some reason flipping the stack upsidedown always fixes the problem immediately.

how does it do with carbonless paper?
-- We run a lot of NCR forms and so far no problems.

how does it do with 130#gloss cover in 19 x 13 size?
-- Haven't done a ton of 19x13 size but it does fine on the 18x12 size

what about label stock? Pre-die cut labels on 8.5 x 11 sheets?
-- No issues at all with label stocks, way way better than Xerox. It also runs transparency sheets 1000 times faster. I think I shed tears of joy the first time I had to run them because it just... ran them with no jams and Xerox would only run like 5 sheets at a time.

how often is the machine down for service? How good is the service when it is down? How quick is the service?
-- I'm sure this is going to be localized but our service at both our shop locations has been timely and quick.

does anyone have any of the attached stitchers or booklet makers? how do you like those things?
-- we have both and again, lightyears ahead of xerox in this department in terms of ease of setup and accuracy.

how is the registration from front to back on all different types of papers?
--- ah, this is a weaker point on this machine. The registration tends to drift no matter what we do. It resets though when you reprint the same job so if we are doing a longer run we print it in batches so the registation will reset (usually 250 sheets). We are using Fiery though and I think it's the culprit like sertech says.

how has the supply chain been for getting things like parts, drums, toner, feed wheels, any kind of filters, etc?
--- we haven't had any issues, the auto toner resupply system has been super. I don't have to think about it at all or place the orders the toner just arrives.


We've run into this issue with both our 810s and same with having to reinstall multiple times. Our 910 has the better fiery and doesn't have this problem.


We solved this problem by using the spectrometer and then forcing the canon to use one color profile for all our papers so that it doesn't try to do it's own thing. It got us way better color consistency than their built in color profiling system that has 5 different options that are too hard to keep in-spec.

Ive used the spectrometer from day one. Did a costed stock and had every print from that stock. My issues were shading. I would do the shading adjustment and it would get worse. So all the services guys said leave shading to zero. It was sent to upper management to get some other guys involved. Long story short…canon did me all the wrong ways possible. My service manager now is great…the tech that’s assigned to me is great but they do not know how to fix these issues.

Picked up the Konica 7090 from POA and these guys are light years ahead on the service side. They resolve issues on the fly over a call.

Moral of the story, if you’re buying the Canon, make sure you have the better fiery on there. Make sure you have a solid device team. In fact, send over some work you’ve printed in the past and have them do sample prints off their display model machines. Specifically grays and light to medium gradients. Have them impose the jobs and shoot out 19x13 sheets of your samples.

Not sure what price you’re getting on this machine, but highly consider the next model up with some bells and whistles for added $$$. Pretty worth spending a few hundred extra now to get good accessories now rather than regret it later.

 

[Sertech]

Ive used the spectrometer from day one. Did a costed stock and had every print from that stock. My issues were shading. I would do the shading adjustment and it would get worse. So all the services guys said leave shading to zero. It was sent to upper management to get some other guys involved. Long story short…canon did me all the wrong ways possible. My service manager now is great…the tech that’s assigned to me is great but they do not know how to fix these issues.

Picked up the Konica 7090 from POA and these guys are light years ahead on the service side. They resolve issues on the fly over a call.

Moral of the story, if you’re buying the Canon, make sure you have the better fiery on there. Make sure you have a solid device team. In fact, send over some work you’ve printed in the past and have them do sample prints off their display model machines. Specifically grays and light to medium gradients. Have them impose the jobs and shoot out 19x13 sheets of your samples.

Not sure what price you’re getting on this machine, but highly consider the next model up with some bells and whistles for added $$$. Pretty worth spending a few hundred extra now to get good accessories now rather than regret it later.

I don't understand this. Shading adjusts for differences across the drum. It wouldn't help with gradients. It's meant to help with variations in things like drum surface and charge. I guess I'd have to see samples. if I couldn't figure it out, I'd take it to our print consultant. Grays are one of the reasons I'd recommend the prismaSync. Although I think the new fierys have G7 capabilities now too.

 

[Robohopar]

I don't understand this. Shading adjusts for differences across the drum. It wouldn't help with gradients. It's meant to help with variations in things like drum surface and charge. I guess I'd have to see samples. if I couldn't figure it out, I'd take it to our print consultant. Grays are one of the reasons I'd recommend the prismaSync. Although I think the new fierys have G7 capabilities now too.

Correct. That’s what I thought would fix an issue with my job because that’s what canon told me. I was getting different colors from one side to the other side of my job. The solution is still pending

 

[chriscozi]

Correct. That’s what I thought would fix an issue with my job because that’s what canon told me. I was getting different colors from one side to the other side of my job. The solution is still pending

Count me paranoid
BUT
there was a toner shortage and a toner-plant manufacturing fire.

And now both Canon and Xerox are having trouble with toner density across the sheet.
HMMMMM . . . .

 

[Sertech]

Count me paranoid
BUT
there was a toner shortage and a toner-plant manufacturing fire.

And now both Canon and Xerox are having trouble with toner density across the sheet.
HMMMMM . . . .

I don't know anything of canon having density problems across the sheet. They've had shading correction for years. Drums are organic and charge wires and grid get dirty. Shading is to adjust for that. The gradation problem talked about here is different. The toner plant fire was konica minolta and I think they've overcome that

 

[pippip]

Count me paranoid
BUT
there was a toner shortage and a toner-plant manufacturing fire.

And now both Canon and Xerox are having trouble with toner density across the sheet.
HMMMMM . . . .

I believe the toner plant manufacturing fire was Konica.

 

[jwheeler]

Picked up the Konica 7090 from POA and these guys are light years ahead on the service side. They resolve issues on the fly over a call.

@Robohopar , what sort of volume and media do you run on your Konica C7090? What issues have you had or have you been totally happy with it?

At first we only had a C6085, then wanted to get a 2nd one. Unlike @kslight , we've been very happy with the C6085. Unfortunately, they didn't have any more in inventory, so we were forced to get a C7090 and we regret it (had it for 10 months now). It's actually a downgrade, and even the techs say so. It's clearly the same engine as their lower-end C3070 that has been sped up. It has the same drums, fuser, etc. Therefore, the parts wear out much faster than our C6085 resulting in constant color shifting. I used to work at KM and the C3070 was a solid series for lower volumes. It seems that it can't keep up running at 90 or 100ppm and higher volumes.

Luckily KM's service is excellent, but the tech is here about once a week or every other week to fix it. When it is running optimally, the colors are amazing, and it has no problem running any media we throw at it including 16pt C2S or even 14pt Synaps synthetic media. The front/back registration is excellent (we do have the IQ-501).

Another downside is even though it's supposed to be faster (90ppm compared to 85ppm on the C6085), it's significantly slower than the C6085 when running mixed media. We run a lot of training manuals that are 4/4 on 24# for the main paper, and 90# index divider tabs mixed in, 3-hold punched in-line. The C6085 runs this without ever pausing, yet the C7090 constantly pauses to make adjustments. We've timed the same job and each set will take 18 seconds on the C6085, vs 30-35 seconds on the C7090.

Usually I'm a bit proponent of KM, but unfortunately I recommend people pass on this unit. Does anyone else have similar experiences on the C7090?

 

[chriscozi]

I believe the toner plant manufacturing fire was Konica.

did not think it was one 'manufacturer'.

 

[chriscozi]

I don't know anything of canon having density problems across the sheet. They've had shading correction for years. Drums are organic and charge wires and grid get dirty. Shading is to adjust for that. The gradation problem talked about here is different. The toner plant fire was konica minolta and I think they've overcome that

Ok.
So existing toner supply doesn't appear to be the issue.
Just the reality of a possible change in the chemistry/mix of the toners with no warning from the vendors . . .
We have lots of issues with paper having less 'fibre' and more 'coating' these days.

 

[Robohopar]

@Robohopar , what sort of volume and media do you run on your Konica C7090? What issues have you had or have you been totally happy with it?

At first we only had a C6085, then wanted to get a 2nd one. Unlike @kslight , we've been very happy with the C6085. Unfortunately, they didn't have any more in inventory, so we were forced to get a C7090 and we regret it (had it for 10 months now). It's actually a downgrade, and even the techs say so. It's clearly the same engine as their lower-end C3070 that has been sped up. It has the same drums, fuser, etc. Therefore, the parts wear out much faster than our C6085 resulting in constant color shifting. I used to work at KM and the C3070 was a solid series for lower volumes. It seems that it can't keep up running at 90 or 100ppm and higher volumes.

Luckily KM's service is excellent, but the tech is here about once a week or every other week to fix it. When it is running optimally, the colors are amazing, and it has no problem running any media we throw at it including 16pt C2S or even 14pt Synaps synthetic media. The front/back registration is excellent (we do have the IQ-501).

Another downside is even though it's supposed to be faster (90ppm compared to 85ppm on the C6085), it's significantly slower than the C6085 when running mixed media. We run a lot of training manuals that are 4/4 on 24# for the main paper, and 90# index divider tabs mixed in, 3-hold punched in-line. The C6085 runs this without ever pausing, yet the C7090 constantly pauses to make adjustments. We've timed the same job and each set will take 18 seconds on the C6085, vs 30-35 seconds on the C7090.

Usually I'm a bit proponent of KM, but unfortunately I recommend people pass on this unit. Does anyone else have similar experiences on the C7090?

Unfortunately, I’ve only had this machine for 2 weeks now. I’m having some issues with it but unrelated to your issues. I’m coming from a canon 710 so it’s seems like a huge upgrade as far was speed. The sales guy mentioned that it does not pause but mine does pause like how you are mentioning. I’m have issues with 100lb gloss text printing in full saturation black. Seems like the fuser gets too hot and wrinkles the paper. And having a lot of fluttering sounds from the gray that’s picking up the 100lb text as well. Some shifting issues too. I have the iq501 so it’s easy and quick to calibrate.

Still learning the machine so I cannot comment too much.

 

[Mike619]

I’ve been running a C710 for a few years now. I blame all my bad impressions of my machine on Canon themselves. They over promised and under delivered. My sales guy said yes to everything I asked him the machine will do.

The canon is a great machine, for its smaller footprint, I ended up doing a decent amount of paper stock from NCR’s to 16pt card stock C2S 13x19. Although NCR’s aren’t recommended, there’s no reason you shouldn’t run them if you need to. 16pt card stock runs well…now. Used to always jam up until it just kinda started working. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I added a professional booklet finisher and a pro puncher with a few dies to crease and 41 hole punch. The creaser come in very handy for books. I also have the poorly designed 3 larger tray stack. The fiery G250 is a very low grade add on. I’d recommend getting the upgraded fiery. They replaced mine once already and have needed to reinstall the entire software about 5-6 times now.

Registration is fair minus at best. Had floppy large tray stackers(compared to my 7090) and needs a registration scan almost everyday sometimes twice a day. Gets annoying. But keeps registration through the job decently well.

Maybe this is just my particular machine, but color calibration absolutely sucks. Density through the sheet is horrendous. My local Los Angeles canon guys came out and looked at the issues and recommended me to buy a “real machine” and upgrade to the C10000 vs the 710 I have.

Got my jobs done for the most part. Some jobs are unacceptable as far as color goes and honestly probably unachievable on this machine. I have about 2M clicks on mine but barely ran the machine the first two years. Supply chain was undisturbed. They have swapped out my pro puncher I think 3 times now - very irritating but service has always been good to me as far as changing parts even if I’m a bit unhappy with the print quality.

I’d recommend the next level up machine or check out the newer models of this machine.

Thank you very much for your input. It is greatly appreciated. I am considering an 810 so that might be somewhat of an upgrade. I’m very surprised to hear that you were getting 16 point stock through there. That sounds like that must be quite a bit more than 350 GSM, right? I am sorry to hear that you were having some of the issues that you were having with the density uniformity. I know on my Xerox versant 180, there is actually an adjustment for density uniformity where you actually print out a target sheet with color bands on it and rescan it in. The machine reads the sheet and then makes the adjustments. It’s a very quick process and seems to work pretty well.