CMYK into 2 Spot Colors

[gashe]

Hello,
I am a graphic designer and recently i designed a logo for a client that is in CMYK. He didnt care in that time, now he needs the logo in 2 spot colors. In the logo i am using gradients to get the silver and gold-bronze color. I really dont know what 2 PMS color to use to get the same effect on print. Here is the logo so you know what i am talking about: http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/6585/jajpg.jpg
I designed the logo in Illustrator cs4
Thanks for your advice

Regards

 

[gordo]

Hello,
I am a graphic designer and recently i designed a logo for a client that is in CMYK. He didnt care in that time, now he needs the logo in 2 spot colors.

What you created is not a logo - it's an illustration.

It is a fundamental criteria in logo design that the graphic must be effective and suitable for reproduction under the worst possible circumstances - typically one color, e.g. black ink only, on poor paper (e.g. phonebook/newspaper, et. al.).

So, IMHO, you should and will have to create a new graphic that shares elements of the original illustration (circles, stars, fleur-de-lis, etc.) but is crafted from the ground up to be reproduced in only two colors (and preferably no halftone screening).

best, gordon p

 

[Skittizay]

if you need to keep the gradient then i would just open up a swatch book if you have the appropriate one, and find a gold and silver color that matches the darkest parts of your gradients...switch the cmyk values in your gradient tool box to the new pantone colors that you choose...

 

[almaink]

So your the one responsible for all these process logo's I've been fixing lately so they will print as 2/c spots! Yet another example of why design work should require a license.

 

[gashe]

Well thanks for your honest replays.
The whole think is that 9 out of 10 clients don't want solid colors. They all love gradients, shadows bla bla. And ofcourse most of the clients wants to save money to print it in less colors if it is possible. Thats why i am asking you for advice if it can be done as it is now. I know most of you dont like complicate artworks but you should understand that most of the time we do things that the client wants, and they dont want to listen to us. So my next question is if it is possible to tell me the PMS colors for silver and dark gold ?

Thanks

 

[wonderings]

Well thanks for your honest replays.
The whole think is that 9 out of 10 clients don't want solid colors. They all love gradients, shadows bla bla. And ofcourse most of the clients wants to save money to print it in less colors if it is possible. Thats why i am asking you for advice if it can be done as it is now. I know most of you dont like complicate artworks but you should understand that most of the time we do things that the client wants, and they dont want to listen to us. So my next question is if it is possible to tell me the PMS colors for silver and dark gold ?

Thanks

There are many different pms colours for those. The best thing would get a pms swatch book and find the one that matches what your looking for. Have you done any print with the CMYK logo already? Are you trying to match any printed material?

 

[Verdant]

You won't get exactly the same look, but since it's 2 color silver and gold you could spec out metallic PMS colors. Also, instead of creating gradients I've found that using the blend tool and blending shapes and colors together gives you better reproducibility (is that a word??), and gives you more control over your screen values.

 

[gordo]

Well thanks for your honest replays.
The whole think is that 9 out of 10 clients don't want solid colors. They all love gradients, shadows bla bla. And ofcourse most of the clients wants to save money to print it in less colors if it is possible. Thats why i am asking you for advice if it can be done as it is now. I know most of you dont like complicate artworks but you should understand that most of the time we do things that the client wants, and they dont want to listen to us. So my next question is if it is possible to tell me the PMS colors for silver and dark gold ?

Thanks

That's why I agree with almaink.

Sorry, but doing what the client asks for, or says they want, is not what a professional graphic designer does. A professional, as in any trade, does what is needed to determine exactly what the problem is that is presented to them and then propose the most effective solution to solve that problem.

It is not a question of the client wanting to "save money" by printing it in less colors. It is a question of the responsibility of the designer to explain to the customer, during the initial briefing, that an effective logo will have to work in a great variety of media. Sometimes in color, sometimes in just black and white - as in a newspaper ad. Sometimes it won't even be printed but be created in other media like glass and signage.

That's why this "logo" design only lasted one year:

Compared with this one (and its variants) which has been working for the company for over 40 years:

BTW, I would be very cautious about using metallic PMS colors since they do not trap well and the metallic will be lost wherever the image is halftone screened.

best, gordon p

 

[John Clifford]

Well thanks for your honest replays.
I know most of you dont like complicate artworks but you should understand that most of the time we do things that the client wants, and they dont want to listen to us.
Thanks

As has been stated previously, YOU are the graphics professional. It is up to YOU to let the client know what is possible and what they should be looking for. If YOU can't convince the client, then YOU're not doing your job.

Yes, I just had to deal with a black/white job that had a blue text link and a color logo in it, converting everything to grayscale. I also had to convert some 4-color into 2-color. But prepress guys like me get PAID to do that and only because YOU designers don't properly prepare your files.

 

[Stephen Marsh]

Gashe, now that you have been chastised by the forum, I will offer some advice. By the way, the forum is not picking on you, they are giving you very good advice, my advice is to take it to heart. Good logo design starts with the simplest printing, such as being suitable for use with rubber stamp creation or envelope printing - or even a fax cover sheet. Moving on...

As you have done this logo in Illustrator, you should have more flexibility in making two colours. You may have to make some adjustments to make this work in two colour only. Depending on the artwork construction, you may have to change the colours in Illustrator to use say magenta and black only, where magenta would be substituted for the spot gold or bronze colour. Otherwise if you are sure of what you are doing, you can simply use black and a true spot colour.

I would use black and a spot colour, regular or metallic, whichever was in budget.

You will likely have to consult with the printer and make sure that the client understands that the final result may not look exactly like the four colour version.

I have attached a 2-spot colour version made in Photoshop as an example.

Regards,

Stephen Marsh

 

[gashe]

As you have done this logo in Illustrator, you should have more flexibility in making two colours. You may have to make some adjustments to make this work in two colour only. Depending on the artwork construction, you may have to change the colours in Illustrator to use say magenta and black only, where magenta would be substituted for the spot gold or bronze colour. Otherwise if you are sure of what you are doing, you can simply use black and a true spot colour.

I would use black and a spot colour, regular or metallic, whichever was in budget.

You will likely have to consult with the printer and make sure that the client understands that the final result may not look exactly like the four colour version.

I have attached a 2-spot colour version made in Photoshop as an example.

Regards,

Stephen Marsh

Thanks for the advice Marsh, finally someone to explain something without complaining, a real expert. Very appreciate. I did some small changes in the icon and i used kind a close PMS 732, and i think it will look close. Also i dont know weather to use PMS black or K ?

Thanks again
Regards
Gashe

 

[gashe]

You won't get exactly the same look, but since it's 2 color silver and gold you could spec out metallic PMS colors. Also, instead of creating gradients I've found that using the blend tool and blending shapes and colors together gives you better reproducibility (is that a word??), and gives you more control over your screen values.

Interesting idea, i will try that, but sometimes blends dont work if the object have sharp edges.

Thanks

 

[gashe]

BTW, I would be very cautious about using metallic PMS colors since they do not trap well and the metallic will be lost wherever the image is halftone screened.
best, gordon p

If i do it in metallic PMS i will not use gradients, but will have to change the icon a little bit more

Thanks

 

[gordo]

If i do it in metallic PMS i will not use gradients, but will have to change the icon a little bit more
Thanks

That is why I suggested that you should and will have to create a new graphic that shares elements of the original illustration (circles, stars, fleur-de-lis, etc.) but is crafted from the ground up to be reproduced in only one or only two colors (and preferably not requiring halftone screening).

If you don't fix the original problem now, I have a feeling that it will just come back in a different form later. Otherwise, fixing the logo each time for each application will, over time, likely just result in accumulation of bastardized versions and an unhappy designer and client.

best, gordon p

 

[michaelejahn]

Duotones are tricky !

Duotones are tricky !

Interesting idea, i will try that, but sometimes blends dont work if the object have sharp edges.

I have created far worse logos that were actually used. I will suggest that you contemplate how much work this is before you do something like this again.

If you invested in a Pantone book, you could better decide what the colors to specify, but since you have entered the world of duotone - you have absolutely no way to simulate how this might print. Even if you were able to fuss around with transparency settings, without any data points as to the opacity of the inks or ink sequence, you are like a feather in a tornado.

Hopefully, this client is a friend, as you will quickly be surprised press-side - but, you will learn something important (that is, besides the "i will never try that again" lesson)

Pantone actually used to see a duotone giude, where you could see how two pantone colors interacted. Of course they discontinued it, as printers could not duplicate the guide, and color management was useless when appling transfer curves to black and white data.

Best of luck, you will need it, and do come back with how things turned out !

 

[billyinlasvegas]

I'd say the easiest way to make this into two spots is to get rid of the gradients (that are simulating a metallic look) and replace them with a gold and silver metallic PMS and make sure they're at 100%. I'm assuming you used Illustrator so changing it should be easy.

I have to warn you printing metallic colors usually costs more and if your client wants a two color version of their "logo" is usually because they're trying to print it the cheapest way possible. Also you might want to show your client his/her "logo" on a white background so they can see how it will look on paper.

If you want a cheap way around buying a swatch book go to your nearest offset print shop and tell them you're looking to print a two color metallic job and you want to look at their swatch book.

I can't say this enough though, if you're a graphic artist buy a swatch book and replace it often.

 

[RickLee]

I know that the forum may chastise me too but I would recommend using a metal FX technique.

Use PMS877 silver and a golden or orange PMS overprinting to get the metallic feel to the entire piece. The inner circle should not be greater that say 50% of the silver so that us can use the three quarter silver tones to darken the golden colours to give more contrast.

It would require a little research to figure it out.

 

[pacart]

WOW!

A whole lot of bashing and mumbo jumbo, all the guy wants is help, not a lesson in how YOU would do it, and absolutely not a lesson in anal rentention. If he wants to call it a logo, who cares! ITS A LOGO IF HE CALLS IT A LOGO! He asked for a solution to his specific issue, if you guys attacked people like you did him every time they post, no one would want to post, GET IT!

Solutions:

1. Use metallic pms colors. We print metallic pms colors all the time that have gradients, a good pressman will make it look good, don't be afraid to do it. And if they don't think their press can hold the gradient screens, then go somewhere else.

2. Another option is to foil and emboss - probably more expensive - might look cool though

 

[visualkoncepts037]

K.I.S.S. - KEEP IT SIMPLE STUPID!!

Come on guys, this is not hard at all...There are different "variations" of logos everywhere. If the client is wanting a 2 color PMS logo, then just convert the existing logos to 2 colors. Take out the gradients and leave as solid fills of metallic 877 (silver) and 873 (gold). Done!

P.S. - This should take you about 2 minutes....

 

[visualkoncepts037]

Thanks for the advice Marsh, finally someone to explain something without complaining, a real expert. Very appreciate. I did some small changes in the icon and i used kind a close PMS 732, and i think it will look close. Also i dont know weather to use PMS black or K ?

Thanks again
Regards
Gashe

In regards to this question, it doesnt matter, as long as you use one or the other and not both. (I personally (refering back to my K.I.S.S. method) would just use K.)