Color Management for PDF > Designjet Workflow - Are my defaults way off?

[DiamondD]

Here's our workflow: The majority of the files we print are posters designed by our customers in Powerpoint, and then converted to PDF by the customer using "Save As > PDF" in the file menu. We receive the PDF on our Windows 7 PC and print to our HP DesignJet Z3200 (non-PS). Our monitor is profiled with a Spyder2 Pro. Everything seemed OK using the defaults at first, but lately we've been seeing a lot of color shifts, especially blue turning to purple in the print.

So I started exploring the Acrobat X Pro Color Management settings, and all the defaults seem like bad choices to me! I guess I know just enough to be dangerous, but I have a bit of an understanding of color management, at least in photoshop, from my photographic work. But Acrobat seems like a completely different beast in this regard and I am lost.

Under Preferences > Color Management, Acrobat was set to
Settings: Monitor Color
Working Spaces -
RGB: Monitor RGB - Custom Monitor ICC Profile

I know that's not usually recommended!

From the Print dialogue, in the Advanced Print Setup box, Color Management is set to
Color Handling: Acrobat Color Management
Color Profile: Working RGB: Custom Monitor ICC Profile
Output color: Composite RGB

Shouldn't the color profile be my Printer/Paper-specific ICC?

Finally, in the Print dialogue Properties menu of the HP Designjet, in the Color tab, the Color Management is set to
Printer Managed Colors - Source Profile: sRGB


Are these settings as conflicting as they seem to be? What should my RGB working space be? What type of color profile are Powerpoint > PDF documents likely to have, assuming the customer is paying no attention to color management?

Should I be letting Acrobat or the DesignJet 3200 manage the color? If it's acrobat, shouldn't the Output Color be set to an ICC profile of the printer/paper combo I'm using? If it's the printer, why are sRGB and RGB my only choices for source profiles?

I great appreciate any insight you can give me to this. There's so much less info out there on Color Management for Acrobat, especially for inkjet printing!

 

[Correct Color]

Well, the good news is you're pretty much right in all your assumptions, and you're asking the right questions.

Acrobat seems like a completely different beast in this regard and I am lost.

First thing to understand about color management is that there's never a different beast. It's always the same stuff. And as such, you're right, you never want to use your monitor profile as your RGB working space.

Ever.

Shouldn't the color profile be my Printer/Paper-specific ICC?...

At this point, no. It should be whatever working color space you choose to use. Usually some RGB space, and usually sRGB or Adobe 1998 RGB, although there are other options, and reasons to use them.

What should my RGB working space be? What type of color profile are Powerpoint > PDF documents likely to have, assuming the customer is paying no attention to color management?

You get to pick your working space, and what you pick might depend on several factors. What you then want to do is use color management to get incoming files into your working space. Powerpoint to PDF would depend on the PDF conversion settings, but I'd guess they'd either be sRGB, or already converted to CMYK in the PDF creation, most likely SWOP.

Should I be letting Acrobat or the DesignJet 3200 manage the color? If it's acrobat, shouldn't the Output Color be set to an ICC profile of the printer/paper combo I'm using?

In an ideally color managed workflow, what you'd want to do is have the printer profiled, and then pick the profile in the application. Done that way you'd have application managed color.

If it's the printer, why are sRGB and RGB my only choices for source profiles?

Well, what the "source profile" means in that dialogue is your working space, not the printer profile. If sRGB and "RGB" are the only two choices they give you, then all the more reason not to use that option.


Mike Adams
Correct Color

 

[Stephen Marsh]

DiamondD, it seems to me that you should be setting the RGB working space settings to be using sRGB in both Acrobat and your printer driver. This is for the source input, while for the printer it sounds as if you are using the printer driver direct to the printer, rather than a RIP.

From the screen capture of the Color tab of the printer driver window, you may have to explore print results from the Color Management, Application managed colours vs. Printer managed colors.

I presume that you are then selecting the most appropriate paper/media setting for the media loaded on the printer. If you are not using the exact same brand or make of media, then you may have to experiment with the various media settings to get the "best" result. For example if you are using a photo gloss media, the most appropriate option may first appear to be a similar glossy photo setting - however, with experimentation you may find that there are better results using a semi gloss, vinyl or some other non obvious setting.


Stephen Marsh

 

[DiamondD]

Thank you very much for your responses! I have a few follow ups, hopefully getting into the specifics here. I'm going with sRGB as my Working Space, since that's the default RGB space I assume most of our clients would be using. I do understand how to use the Preflight tool to see whether the file components are in RGB or CMYK space.

I'm still a bit confused about the Application vs. Printer Managed Color options in the Print dialogue box.

In the Advanced Print Setup - Color options, if I choose Acrobat Color Management, the program suggests I choose an ICC profile that "describes the target output device." I assumed that this meant the ICC profile I made with my printer/paper combo I use, but now I'm not so sure. I tried a test print, and I got much more accurate results using sRGB here compared to my custom paper ICC. So do I want to choose the custom printer/paper ICC, or do I choose my working space (sRGB as the default) here? Under what circumstances would I want to choose "Same As Source (No Color Management)" or "Printer Color Management"?

Also, if I have Acrobat Color Management selected in the Advanced properties, then do I also need to have "Application Managed Colors" selected in the Color tab of the print properties window? If I have Printer Managed Colors, is the file being double-profiled?

If I choose Printer Managed Colors, I understand that sRGB should be the source profile since that's my RGB working space. But what about when I have a file that's been converted to CMYK? That's not a source profile option. Should I always go with Application Managed Colors in that instance?

Thank you,
Nick

 

[Correct Color]

Nick,

In the Advanced Print Setup - Color options, if I choose Acrobat Color Management, the program suggests I choose an ICC profile that "describes the target output device." I assumed that this meant the ICC profile I made with my printer/paper combo I use, but now I'm not so sure. I tried a test print, and I got much more accurate results using sRGB here compared to my custom paper ICC. So do I want to choose the custom printer/paper ICC, or do I choose my working space (sRGB as the default) here? Under what circumstances would I want to choose "Same As Source (No Color Management)" or "Printer Color Management"?

That is what it means. If you're getting a better result using sRGB as your printer space, you've got something out of whack somewhere else, because your printer color space is not sRGB. It's possible, for instance, that if you assigned your monitor profiles to your incoming files, they got jacked-up enough that assigning sRGB back to them might make them print better than converting the incorrect files correctly to the proper printer color space (ICC profile). However, without going through your entire workflow, it's impossible to know just where your issue is.

Basically, the only time you want to run "same as source" is when you're printing profile patches, which you'd never want to do from Acrobat in any event. And myself, I never recommend "Printer Color Management" on these types of printers/drivers for any reason.

Also, if I have Acrobat Color Management selected in the Advanced properties, then do I also need to have "Application Managed Colors" selected in the Color tab of the print properties window? If I have Printer Managed Colors, is the file being double-profiled?

Yes.

If I choose Printer Managed Colors, I understand that sRGB should be the source profile since that's my RGB working space. But what about when I have a file that's been converted to CMYK? That's not a source profile option. Should I always go with Application Managed Colors in that instance?

If you have to use this printer and not drive it with a RIP, you should use application-managed color regardless. But in response to this question, understand that most people serious about color wouldn't run this printer with this driver. It's pretty limiting in what it allows you to do as far as controlling the printer. If you're serious, you might want to look into getting a RIP.

That said, you'd just have to try it and see what happens. It might be that if you sent an actual CMYK file, the driver would give you a choice of CMYK source spaces. Or it might have no CMYK emulations included, as, since it's an RGB driver, it has to send an RGB print-stream to the printer.

I'm just not familiar enough with that driver to know for certain, so it'd take lining up everything correctly and then sending some test prints to find out.


Mike Adams
Correct Color