Considering Apogee X Upgrading

[santos]

We are currently using an AGFA Viper Rip 3.04 with an Avantra 30 OLP/Selectset and the Directors are considering upgrading the system. We use Macs with OS 9 and are recently having very new problems with the artworks coming in at the press. Main errors are "Enlarge Flush Policy" and "Postscript Error"...

For example,with simple 2 col PDFs, (we learnt have been created with Acrobat 7) upon sending for seperation we get results with one blank film and one rightly done film. As we have OS 9 we can send only through Acrobat 5. We think that this is one of our main issues. We have a third mac that we are considering to try to upgrade to OS X and will be doing it in the coming days. We will then try to send separations through that mac and see if we get any positive results.

Can anyone suggest to me if this is a good start or makes any sense? We are also considering investing in a new Pc so that we can at least open the files we recieve with new version software.

For Imposition we use "Inposition" through Quark.

Regarding the Apogee X software, does anyone suggest it as a good alternative instead of our current workflow as the Directors are considering this option at the moment.


I would really appreciate any suggestions regarding what steps i should take to upgrade the workflow without having to completely halt the current system, as we cannot afford to have any breakdowns or system conflicts because of production ques.

Thank you

 

[DonBlock]

Santos,

Since it has been awhile for any upgrades at your place, you are going to be looking at some fairly good expenditures. You should upgrade or purchase new Macs with the newest software to keep compatible with the files that you receive along with a PC for those files. As for the RIP, I would recommend a Harlequin RIP solution. Xitron has what you need for that and if you cannot find a dealer locally, they can help you direct. The cost will be MUCH less than the Apogee X and is an open format so you can build around it for future growth. You only have to change the interface and it can output to over 150 devices including plotter/proffers.

If you would like more information, feel free to contact me off site.

 

[Lukas Engqvist]

How much production are you handeling? Is it the systm cost or the down time cost you are worried about?
A full up to date Apogee system isn't cheap, but it does give control ans flexibility.

 

[DonBlock]

Lukas is correct that the Apogee isn't cheap. However, all Workflows that are current give control and flexibility..... But which ones give you the flexibility to keep your options open for future purchases??? All of the manufacturers want your future purchase to continue to be from them. And at that time they may still be the one that you go with, but shouldn't you have that choice without having to change everything??

 

[santos]

Thank you Lucas and Donblock for you quick replies.

I will firstly do some research on the Harlequin RIP alternative. Do you think the mac as RIP (currently G3 OS 9) will need to be replaced if we go for Harlequin?

Lucas i am not worried about any type of cost in particular i just want to be sure that with the money and time we invest to upgrade we arrive to a faster, more updated workflow system. My main concern is pointing out exactly to the Directors how many macs need to be changed/upgraded etc etc to handle the Avantra + if a new PC is a necessary tool for us.

We have a daily workflow of films for black text (Book Publishing/printing) and also have 4 colour seperations needed constantly. The Avantra is in use everyday and if changing to Apogee or Harlequin will mean for us changing the whole system (macs and rip mac) i really want to know if i'm doing the right thing!

Tomorrow i will list up some technical info on the RIP mac and other macs, may come in handy...


Thanks for you help!

Donblock, im still new to this site ans forum, you had told me that if i wanted i could contact you off site, how do i do that? email?

Thank you again!

 

[DonBlock]

Yes, you can send me an email.

Any new system that you get will require a new Mac or PC to run it on. We prefer a PC for the RIP because some of the options are only available on the PC version and the GPS Workflow from Xitron runs on a PC platform. As far as a PC workstation goes, only you know the answer to that question. Do you get many files in from PC users? If so, then the answer is yes.

If you are considering going to a CTP device in the future, and I would assume that you are, then you want a Workflow that will allow you to look at all vendors and not be tied into one before you are ready for that purchase.

 

[altejarat]

We have used APOGEE X, XITRON NAVIGATOR 7 & HIGHWATER TORRENT 7.0 with Interface & Cables for AGFA Machines. Contact if interetsed

 

[santos]

DonBlock,

I cant find your email address in your profile bro!

S

 

[DonBlock]

Sorry, I thought it was in the profile...

[email protected]

 

[Lukas Engqvist]

Remember the Apogee system comes in so many flavours you may want just the minimal thing a rip and driver for your Avantra. Whatever vendor you choose they are probably making most of the money off the consumables ;P.

I like the safety of havingan Adobe rip. With the emerging PDFx4, I would argue for a system that builds on the APPE.
At the time we had a viper we also had a harlequin we would sometimes get slight differences in output.

 

[DonBlock]

I have to differ from Lucas both points. You can purchase the Harlequin from an independent dealer that does not sell you your consumables not to mention, the Harlequin is the most widely used RIP in the world today.

Global Graphics does a great job of keeping up with current technologies and as long as you use the right OEM, you will have no problems and get the output that you are looking for.

 

[Lukas Engqvist]

Don how well are Harlequin keeping up with inRip trapping, color management and flattening? Have you compared results.
With PDFx1a workflows I would asume they are up to date, but I do see that vendors, even those building on the AdobeRIP have problems implememnting and teaching their customers to implement in-rip CMM. (took a while even for Agfa to get the BPC included in the rip)

 

[DonBlock]

We sell and support both the Harlequin and Adobe RIPs and Workflows. We have experimented with several customers on the different settings for trapping and have found that using the Auto Tapping feature produces the best over all results. The Harlequin also has very good and easy to use color management features. There are always going files here and there that you may have an issue with regardless of which RIP you choose. Designers can always find a way to give a printer a headache..

The choice should be made not only on dollars, but on the requirements of the shop. A single Imagesetter or CTP device with an Epson is much different than 2 8-up CTP with multiple proofers.

Remember, all of the OEMs work off of the same basic engine, and most use the same support tools. The main difference is in the interface...

 

[rich apollo]

I like the safety of havingan Adobe rip. With the emerging PDFx4, I would argue for a system that builds on the APPE.
At the time we had a viper we also had a harlequin we would sometimes get slight differences in output.

I don't mean to nitpick, Lukas, but Adobe is late to their own party. From what I understand Harlequin and Global Graphics have had transparency and native PDF support for a long time.

As to the original post, Santos, I think you'd come out miles ahead with an investment in any workflow - a monkey with a crayon is gonna' be easier for you to support.

 

[Lukas Engqvist]

Are you finding nits? I better check what my crayon equiped monkey has been up to, told him go have a shower ;P
I have seen several riped files from several vendors, if it has been due to bad configuration or glitches in rip is hard to say. As long as you get the support, I won't twist anybody to get any brand system. Whatever tool you get learn the knobs and leavers. Push it to the limit so you know how far you can go, because finding out you're past the limit on a key job can be awfully embarassing.
The choices we make is the sum of the bruises we have.

 

[DonBlock]

Good points Lukas. Too many companies go with a "popular" system which may or may not be the right choice for them. Thorough research should be completed with all current and future needs addressed before deciding on which Workflow to purchase. This includes weeding out all of the sales BS and looking at the real capabilities of each product.

 

[r00ter]

there are a lot of possibilities to overcome clients software evolution. beleive me, i work in a coutry where the pirecy is at its best.. (eg. when i had my first client with qxp my quark only knew qxd).
There are costs but you can manage a small production with a apogee server and a single client licence, without extras. i personally had a lot of satisfactionis with a hercules basic with delta tech 5. but without investments, the future isn't bright

 

[r00ter]

i forgot to say that i have customers that use almoust every program you can write with, draw lines with, and insert pictures. you'll be amazed how some of the come with a dot doc and expect to have 100 prints in 10 minutes. but that's another stoy in another thread

 

[haimon]

Hi
We are currently using an Apogee Prepress v.5.
I don`t understand it, why PDFRender uses only one core the from eight core (Dual Quad Core Xeon).
How many core does PDFRender use as you?

And my next problem.
Linearisation and calibration curve mapping (Auto select map) don`t working with the :CristalRaster.