Digital Duplicators & Envelopes

[WOC_Direct]

Hi All,

I'm hoping to get some input on using a digital digital duplicator as a means of producing simple 1 or 2-color envelopes...

Essentially, is a duplicator practical for printing envelopes in a pay-for-print environment?

We are mostly running just a text return address, sometimes a logo and usually a postal indicia. Most runs are 1,000 to 3,000 and black ink only but it would be nice to offer customers an option of adding a 2nd spot color. 90% of what we run is #10 Window & Non-Window. Other sizes range from 5-1/2 bar to 6x9 booklets.

Currently we're running 10 - 15,000 per month but we're positioned to double that over the next few months.

I've looked into the Xante and Oki printers but they can't run #10 Windows. I don't want to get involved w/ an offset press right now. Will a digital duplicator (Riso, Ricoh or Standard) print the envelopes reliably and cost effectively?

I've seen them listed online for up to $20k but I'd be more interested in an entry level machine, possibly pre-owned.

Any thoughts or advice?

Thanks in advance.

 

[csudman]

I bought a 1000.00 Riso one color machine on used from our local dealer. It was a church takeout. 600 dpi, CHEAP as hell consumables, decent print.

Call your local riso dealer and see if they have an used stuff. They are so simple and cheap to work on maintaine, do not get a maintanence agreement.

I print 20-50k images per month on it(about half of them are black ink envelopes). I have an offset press too. Its good enough for most work and it keeps me from having to have my press operator working.

CJ

 

[ondemandbindery]

The digital duplicator may be the solution for you. Go to Ebay and look up the Riso's and there is a guy up north that sells them and he seems to know the machines. One thing about them is your spot color will not be an exact PMS match. And the ink for these machines do not have great drying capabilities. Past that, they do a great job and will easily do what you are looking for. They also come up on Craigslist from time to time.

 

[Craig]

I run envelopes all the time on my Ricoh HQ9000. Works like a champ, just need to tape the master on the longer runs at the corners of the envelope.

 

[printwiz]

Ricoh digital duplicators and business printers will be perfectly adequate for these kinds of jobs

 

[M. Gerald Crofoot]

I agree with the above posts - the Risograph is ideal for this use. We have two of them in service for this exact purpose for 10+ years. Notes: 1) Inks are not fast drying, but scanning and printing as light as possible solves this on all but the red inks. 2) Yes, tape the edges of the print area to protect against tears by the envelopes' sharp corners. 3) There is an envelope feeder available for these - we use ours for longer runs. We also use a conveyor with dryer in place of the exit tray with this setup. 4) Window envelopes are not a problem as there is no heat in the process.

 

[trutrack]

I'm also looking into a digital duplicator

I'm also looking into a digital duplicator

I've heard good things about these machines especially for envelopes on medium and short runs. Does anyone know if you can run a pms colors on these machines.
That would be my major concern for I know that you can order the basic colors for these but I do get requests for a specific pantone run.

 

[ondemandbindery]

I do love me conversations about the Digital Duplicators. You can manipulate the files for sure and scale back the imaging percentages but you do have my interest with you conquering the drying except for the Magenta. The Petroleum based inks dry better than the Soy base in my findings. As for matching PMS, I have been told by anyone that could answer the question you typlically will not match a PMS. The ink is available but just be cautious. I also tried the Vanson line of Black ink and saw no difference in drying Characteristics. Despite the snake oil salesman who told me otherwise.

On a side note, has anyone tried a 2 color Duplicator as how tight is the registration?

 

[trutrack]

Okay so you are saying that there are inks available for pms runs but you've heard that it's not a good idea? I'm just surprised that the digital duplicators are not up to speed on this issue. Yes I am looking at the Ricoh HQ9000 which does have the 2 color drums units inside. Again, I know that Ricoh, Standard and Riso have all the basic colors for these machines but I am also dealing with customers that have pms colors in there artwork so I am trying to get over that hurdle.

 

[WOC_Direct]

I do love me conversations about the Digital Duplicators. You can manipulate the files for sure and scale back the imaging percentages but you do have my interest with you conquering the drying except for the Magenta. The Petroleum based inks dry better than the Soy base in my findings. As for matching PMS, I have been told by anyone that could answer the question you typlically will not match a PMS. The ink is available but just be cautious. I also tried the Vanson line of Black ink and saw no difference in drying Characteristics. Despite the snake oil salesman who told me otherwise.

On a side note, has anyone tried a 2 color Duplicator as how tight is the registration?

It's good to know that there's petroleum based inks available. I demo'd a Richo JP1235 last week and when asked, the rep didn't know if waterproof inks were available. He suggested I run one of the proofs "under water" to test it. Regardless, the JP1235 quality at 300 dpi wasn't sellable.

I'm having trouble finding 400 dpi or 600 dpi machines w/ RIPs installed that I can test in my area and am considering just "taking a shot" at buying something off EBAY.

I'd be interested in seeing prints off of a HQ9000 if I could find one in my area.

 

[ondemandbindery]

The Standard line of inks are petroleum based. I transfer the ink into my Riso Tubes. A little patience and a heat gun does the trick. I can't say I saw that much of a difference but what I was trying to Print on was unrealistic for the machines (or so they say). There is a guy in New York on Ebay that sells them and he seems like a good guy.

 

[ondemandbindery]

Okay so you are saying that there are inks available for pms runs but you've heard that it's not a good idea? I'm just surprised that the digital duplicators are not up to speed on this issue. Yes I am looking at the Ricoh HQ9000 which does have the 2 color drums units inside. Again, I know that Ricoh, Standard and Riso have all the basic colors for these machines but I am also dealing with customers that have pms colors in there artwork so I am trying to get over that hurdle.

Hmmmmmm. Just be cautious. When I looked into the PMS matching last year yes ink could be made with a significant lead time but we are also talking a year later.

Why are they not up to speed? The market has given them a black cloud and quite frankly they are so user friendly on the wallet what Manufacturer wants to have a machine that you never replace if these things ever went mainstream?? Oops, that was a pot shot........ I think the quality is not up to the expectations for most Printers. If you have the right work for these things there are no machines on the market like them. Not that I have found anyway.

 

[overscan]

I've heard good things about these machines especially for envelopes on medium and short runs. Does anyone know if you can run a pms colors on these machines.
That would be my major concern for I know that you can order the basic colors for these but I do get requests for a specific pantone run.

Unless something has happened that I'm not aware of you need a different drum for every colour.

 

[Craig]

Here is one small hurdle I have found on longer runs. The masters stretch.... quite a bit.

 

[WOC_Direct]

Others in this thread recommended taping masters on longer runs...Not sure if that's becuase of the stretching.

What would you consider a longer run where you'd start seeing the stretching effect?

I'm still trying to find a suitable duplicator for production. Mind me asking what kind you're running and what substrates you're using on it?

Thanks.

 

[ondemandbindery]

I have a GR2750 with a 7950 controller. The controller is not a rip but it lets me create my images digitally versus off the glass so for my use it does a great job. As for substrates, kraft paper and .22 chipboard. And some odds and ends envelopes. You could run plywood through these things I believe.