Fight of the century

UberTech

UberTech

Well-known member
Wow, here we go. Game on. This is going to be a really interesting time with the release of these two engines almost simultaneously. If it was by design or not I don't know both parties were pretty quite about their backroom workings.

In the Blue corner is KM with there C8000. Not much know about this one, apart from a pretty obscure web post on an Aussie website not backed up by the US site but available on the Japanese site via the translator. KM have been making headway with there c6500's which has caught the opposition on the hop and proves greasy is sleazy.

In the Red corner is Xerox pulling out the X800/1000. Quickly jumping on the transparent toner bandwagon and pushing hard with there 'we have lots of different production machines' tag line. Strangely now saying 'lets not talk DPI or bit depths anymore'. Oil free fusing and multiple finishing options has been Konica’s tagline since day one, have the leaders become followers?

Below is a quick glance at the specs in comparison.

EI0r4.jpg


Ding ding!
 
Is there any pricing info for the c8000? Surely without that you can't really make a comparison. You'd need to know the price level before you can conclude which machines it's being pitched against.
 
I think this could be a great thread!

...Firstly though, sort that table out, in all honesty in a production environment who cares about what dodgy online finishing you can add??

How about adding things such as running speed on 350gsm, maximum sheet size, AMPVs and Duty Cycles, Operator Replaceable Components, Inline calibration, Environmental contstraints, stock type restraints, RIP options,

...and then you could even go really in depth with things like engineers in the field, average time between service calls etc.

Regarding prices, X800 has a list of $350,000 and I think there was a list on the C8000 of $80,000.... but maybe someone could confirm?

So yeah, right now looking at the upfront specs (and assumed pricing) 4xC8000s look pretty good for the same money!
 
Should be able to add a better table after IPEX. There isn't much know about the c8000. Once this becomes clear we could make a more definative comparison.
 
I agree with Josh as far as the finishing, just give me a High Capacity Stacker and I'll be happy. Everything else is off line. Besides companies like Duplo and Standard and the like will make their stuff go inline eventually.

Someone needs to sneak some shots off with their camera phone of the insides of each. I'd be interested in their paper paths, the KM still looks like it might be a lot of tight turns, maybe more prone to jams on that 300+gsm.
 
I was thinking the same thing about the X800 Craig! Standard paper trays located underneath the engine so that's a pretty tight turning radius, but can't be too much of a problem if they've specced it to 350gsm/130 cover auto duplex. (?!?)

Would still be interested to get some more info from Xerox (or anyone in the know) on what the "new" technologies in the X800 are... looking at Xerox's last few releases they're just combinations of previous models.

5000/AP - 250 Imaging with 8000 Feeders and Fuser
700 - 250 Imaging and fuser with 5/7/8000 Feeder (think I'm right on the imaging!)
7/8002 - 7/8000 with iGens ACQS

X800/1000 - ??? DC250/700 Imaging?? I'm guessing if it's using EA toner the Drum/Dev assembly must be new? (it's definitely not the 250/700/5000 set-up with one larger black unit w/seperate corotron) And the Fuser also new?


Won't dwell on the C8000 vs X800 debate too much, but I think serious questions need to be asked as to why Xerox feel the need to develop a 1tonne machine with a list of $350,000 whereas the KM is on castors and (correct me if I'm wrong!) listed at $80,000... (ok Xerox aren't perfect, but they do tend to know what they're doing and there must be reasons behind it!!)
 
Ubertech, the X800/1000 was announced Dec 15 2009 in Japan. No secret, just difficult to translate Japanese brochures.
 
Josh said:
I was thinking the same thing about the X800 Craig! Standard paper trays located underneath the engine so that's a pretty tight turning radius, but can't be too much of a problem if they've specced it to 350gsm/130 cover auto duplex. (?!?)

Would still be interested to get some more info from Xerox (or anyone in the know) on what the "new" technologies in the X800 are... looking at Xerox's last few releases they're just combinations of previous models.
Click to expand...

Yes, 350gsm/130lb Cover Auto Duplex. Same speed regardless of weight too.

New technologies on the Xerox 800/1000:
- Clear EA toner
- Long-life photoreceptor
- Seamless Intermediate Belt Transfer
- New Fuser
- Inline Belt Cooling

There are more details and video here:
Innovation inside Xerox Color 800/1000 Presses / Xerox Newsroom
 
Craig said:
Someone needs to sneak some shots off with their camera phone of the insides of each. I'd be interested in their paper paths, the KM still looks like it might be a lot of tight turns, maybe more prone to jams on that 300+gsm.
Click to expand...

There are pictures and videos available on xerox.com ... you can see the inside of the machine, how the paper travels, the new xerographic technologies, etc.
 

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Why did Xerox get away from the long sweeping paper paths like my 8000AP? Looks tight from the 2 decks under the engine.
 
New technologies to XEROX, not digital printing

New technologies to XEROX, not digital printing

X33 said:
Yes, 350gsm/130lb Cover Auto Duplex. Same speed regardless of weight too.

New technologies on the Xerox 800/1000:
- Clear EA toner
- Long-life photoreceptor
- Seamless Intermediate Belt Transfer
- New Fuser
- Inline Belt Cooling
Click to expand...

- Clear EA toner Canon U.S.A
- Long-life photoreceptor Canon New - Canon Europe
- Seamless Intermediate Belt Transfer http://www.konicaminolta.com.au/library/C5501%20Professional_Brochure.pdf check page 8
- New Fuser http://www.konicaminolta.com.au/library/C5501%20Professional_Brochure.pdf check page 4
- Inline Belt Cooling I wouldn't call cooling paper a new technology. This is obviously a solution to a problem they had and decided to call it new tech.
 
Uber,

Completely get your point, however I was really asking what are the new Xerox technologies, as there previous approach is to merge various bits of old machines.

I think the big point with the Xerox is that the machine is likely to have a 500k+ AMPV once it's finalised... although the other toner based machines do have similar features they aren't incorporated into a machine in this volume bracket (possibly with the exception of NexPress)
 
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