Fight of the century

Hmmm... just got some indicative pricing from X on the 1000 (apparently the decision's not made yet whether to actually have an 800) and it's only 24% more than the price on a c8000 I have from KM. The spec is much higher than the c8000, including the 5th colour & a couple of other nice bits + it's 25% faster!

I'm not sure whether KM have got their sums right on this one, they've put themselves up against some tough competition here! In Uber's fight terms, it looks like KM are pitching a middleweight vs a heavyweight to me. Can the plucky underdog punch above his weight, or will it get knocked out by the heavier hitting X1000??
 
Whygen said:
Totally agree with Ifelton - digital isnt the most reliable of technologies and field testing is vital before they release them. Think this is where Canon suffered. Any comments on the quality between the 2 machines? I know its hard to gauge when they only use the standard - press friendly images....
Click to expand...

As I understand it, KM are not ready yet to supply pukka samples in the UK (the RIP software isn't completely finished yet, they haven't got their "production" machine installed in their showrooms, etc.) so I think they are a little way off showing it at it's best. Xerox came in for a visit post Ipex and mentioned that the samples output at Ipex were a bit shiny, but apparently they can vary that to make it match more of a litho appearance, it just wasn't set up for that at the show. Xerox are keen to do samples, so I'm sending off our standard test print to see what that looks like on a 1000. As you'd expect, X don't consider the c8000 a competitor to the 1000, they see the c8000 as a x7002/x8002 class product. Interestingly though, they consider the X1000 to be a direct competitor to the HP 5500, with comparable print quality. If they can back that claim up with results (and a cost model I that can make money out of), the game really will have moved on (and I'll get the cheque book out!).

One other nugget of information that trickled out about the c8000 is that it will (finally) have stochastic/FM screening as an option and I think that will probably help the image quality from the KM engine quite a bit.
 
I'm not sure if the C8000 is actually supposed to be a direct comparison to the 1000. The size of the 1000 is absurd as with most xerox machines except maybe the 700. This is mainly due to the roots of the machines i.e DC4040. But this machine bears no similarity to the 4040 heritage (4040,6060,5000,7000,8000) yet is still a monstrosity. On training courses they give us a breakdown on where KM (Japan) place the engine in comparison to others which I usually find majorly underrated, for example, the c6500 ranks lower than a DC5000 which is ridiculous. I would be surprised if it isn’t placed under DC8000 with the analogy of under commit over achieve.
 
Uber, I think you exagurate when you say the XC1000 is a "monstrosity". I've spend the last few days running file tests on one, and in my opnion the size is a non-consideration for me. Infintely smaller than an iGen but about the same width as an 8000, and considerably bigger than a 700. The internal design is very well considered. Paper travel is relatively straight once in the imaging part. Drums are all tandem in a horizontal plane. There doesn't seem to be the typical Japanese philosophy to compress things into a smaller and smaller space (which, mind you, the Japanese do exceedingly well).
 
Your trying to tell me this...

4635526773_215c7e244b_m.jpg


is not a monstrosity?
 
UberTech said:
Your trying to tell me this... is not a monstrosity?
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that one looks like a fully loaded machine with feeding and finishing accessories.

here's a basic unit.
 

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It's a 100ppm machine. Previously to get that speed you'd have been looking at iGen size, NexPress size or HP7000 size... all of which are considerably larger. I honestly can't see how the size would be an issue to anyone who requires a 100ppm machine?!?

lfelton: we're still waiting for our prices to come through, would you mind letting me know what kind of area you've been quoted? (slightly nosey of me I know!) :D
 
konica
monthly duty cycle: 500.000 pages [impression in the 2 page of the brochure]
ampv: ???
http://http://kmbs.konicaminolta.us/content/products/models/bizhub-PRESS-C8000.html?info=Overview

xerox 800/1000:
Recommended average monthly volume Color 800 Press: 180,000 pages per month
Color 1000 Press: 250,000 pages per month
Duty cycle Color 800 Press: Up to 1,500,000 pages per month
Color 1000 Press: Up to 1,750,000 pages per month
http://http://www.xerox.com/digital-printing/printers/digital-press/xerox-800-1000/spec-enus.html
 
overscan said:
So, has anyone had actual pricing info from KM or is the $80k just a rumour? I need to know whether to bother taking my cheque book with me to ipex :)
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I sat in on a presentation by a senior KM VP a week back who said the street price for the C8000 should be $115-135K range.
 
X33 said:
that one looks like a fully loaded machine with feeding and finishing accessories.

here's a basic unit.
Click to expand...

The basic unit just has a catch tray. On a machine that is likely to be printing on coated stock and 80 to 100 pages a minute I would seriously question anyone who just got a catch tray. I even question why Xerox would even sell one configured like that.

In the picture UberTech posted the people are standing in front of a stacker and that is abou as short as I could ever imagine any configure one to in the real world.
 
We only have a catch on our 8000 and we run 100# cover all day long. We opt for it over a stacker because we can see the output as it comes off the machine. I know you can program for a sheet to shoot out the top tray after so many prints with a stacker but we like the added control.
 
It is my understanding the catch tray has only a 500 sheet capacity and my guess that is rated for 50# offset. With a catch tray you would need an operator to constantly baby sit the machine especialy if you were printing on things like 100lb cover. Every two minutes you would need to unload the output tray or the machine will stop. How many people are willing to devote that much operator time into monitoring a catch tray?
 
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