Illustrator CS5 Bug -- Spot Colors

[bradr]

Has anyone else run into this problem with Illustrator CS5?

When placing a native PSD file into Illustrator CS5 that includes different percentages of spot colors they will be different than what was specified in Photoshop. The spot colors are overlaying CMYK to create a see thru look in Photoshop.

For example if the spot color is 40% it will end up being 16%. 100% will stay at 100%, but any other percentage will be different than what is entered in Photoshop.

We are able to see the difference when creating a PDF or when the file is output to our high end printer. It can also be visually seen when putting an Illustrator CS4 and and Illustrator CS5 side by side.

I can take the same PSD file and place it into Illustrator CS4 or any previous version of Illustrator and they retain the percentages that are entered in Photoshop. Also all percentages match the percentages that are entered in Photoshop when a PDF is created or printed to our printer using any previous version of Illustrator.

I have tried saving the PSD file out as a Tiff file and a DCS2.0 file and get the same results in Illustrator CS5.

Steps to reproduce bug:
Take any CMYK Photoshop File and add a Spot Color (Channel).
Create shapes that are filled with different percentages of the Spot Color.
Place Native PSD file into Illustrator CS5.
Create a PDF.
Take readings of Spot Color percentages in Acrobat using the Output Preview tool.
Percentages are different than what is entered in Photoshop.

Expected Results:
Percentages of spot colors should not be changing.

Is there a bug in Illustrator CS5? We never had this issue with any previous version of Illustrator. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks

 

[chevalier]

Not sure of the cause but I can replicate this. The screen on this file is 50% in photoshop when placed in Illustrator and Saved as as PDF/X4:2008 the PDF reads 25%.

The 100% block did not change.

 

[1972Patrick]

Save the image as a Photoshop PDF and import in to Illustrator. With Overprint preview on it looks correct.

 

[Lukas Engqvist]

Is it 50% of a colour or is it a 100% colour with 50% opacity?
What are your colour settings for greyscale images in PS and Indesign?

Sounds like you'd benifit from a program like PhansasmCS

 

[bradr]

Chevalier it sounds like your getting the same results that we are.

1972Patrick I tried exporting the PSD file as a Photoshop PDF and the correct percentages that were entered in Photoshop were retained.

Lukas I don't think a setting in Photoshop will effect the problem were having. The spot color percentages are changing when placed in Illustrator CS5 as a native PSD file. We are not using Indesign. Not sure what PhansasmCS is.

I think something has changed in Illustrator CS5 to cause this problem. Every previous version of Illustrator did not change the values of spot colors when a native PSD file was placed.

Right now it looks like the only way a PSD file will retain the correct percentages of spot colors is by saving the PSD file as a PDF and then placing it Illustrator CS5.

Thanks for answering and hopefully there will a solution so that a native PSD file can be placed.

Thanks

 

[mikeh]

Sorry Brad - I've tried replicating this, but couldn't match your results.

Not to aggravate you, but do some idiot checks - don't embed any color profiles in your PSD, use the default sRGB and U.S. Web Coated SWOP profiles in AI, check the appearance/handling of black in AI, ensure no compression or color conversions are applied when you save as a pdf out of AI, and view in Acrobat with the default Web SWOP simulation profile.

 

[chevalier]

This definitely is an Illustrator CS5 issue. I replicated the same steps listed above in Adobe Illustrator CS4 with the same PSD and got 50% in the PSD, 50% in Illustrator CS5 and 50% in the PDFX/4:2008.

 

[Lukas Engqvist]

Well I'm not sure illy is the culprit...

Well I'm not sure illy is the culprit...

If you export to a PDF from PS then it is ok when you place in AI.
If you export as a TIF or PSD then it is 25%.
what the value is in the PSD or TIFF you can also see by looking in Indesign.

Now if you place the files from photoshop in InDesign you find that the PSD has 25% in InDesign as well.
What is surprising is that the TIFF is 50% in InDesign but 25% in Illustrator.
The PDF from PS is the only option that displays the same in Illustrator and InDesign, it does however give you a strange error wich seems more of an informative error.

Phantasm CS is a plugg in for AI (Welcome to Astute Graphics - publishers of the Phantasm CS Illustrator plug-in range) so you can do curves duplex, channel mapping etc in Illustrator.

Now there is one thing that different in colour settings in PS and AI and that is you have a dot gain curve for grey and spot. I don't know if that is where the problem is.

 

[chevalier]

Now there is one thing that different in colour settings in PS and AI and that is you have a dot gain curve for grey and spot. I don't know if that is where the problem is.

I would think that if this were the case it would effect the PDF as well as the TIFF and PSD. Further thinking along these lines I checked the "Color Settings" in Illustrator CS4 and CS5 and the panels are identical yet different results are derived. This one has me really perplexed as to why the screens change but the 100% does not.

 

[bradr]

Hello everyone,

Thanks for replying and doing some different types of testing.

It seems that whatever settings in Photoshop or Illustrator are used, they don't effect the final result. I also tried different Color Settings that mikeh suggested and still ended up with the wrong spot color percentages. I agree with chevalier totally, since we are seeing the same results.

Again why does all the previous versions of Illustrator's work just fine? What was changed in Illustrator CS5? What do we do next?

Thanks

 

[Lukas Engqvist]

Did anyone try exporting a PSD, or TIFF from other application and place in Illustrator?
Remember the problem was also visible in InDesign wich means it is NOT JUST illustrator with a problem.

 

[CHM]

Just to tell you guys your not alone with this problem:
Adobe Forums: CS5 Misinterprets Layered PSDs with...

It is a bug, and it is a serious one, so serious we wont step to CS5 in production as long this is not solved by Adobe.

 

[bradr]

Thanks CHM for the link. I checked the link out and it sure is a serious issue. I also have placed a bug report with Adobe and hopefully they will have a solution soon. Is there anyway that Adobe will let us know if they are working towards a solution and admit that there is a bug with CS5.

Thanks

 

[western411]

It sound like you may be creating a transparency issue by combining spot with process colors. When moving the file from one app to another the software becomes confused. I quick way to see is to convert the spot colors to process and see if the problem still exists. By screening it when converted you end up with a color that cannot be printed. We had had your problem going back to Illustrator 10. We could only solved it was by saving as an EPS not a PSD or AI native file.

 

[bradr]

Hello everyone,
Does anyone have any information on what Adobe's response is to this problem with Illustrator CS5? It sure would be helpful if Adobe would let us know if they are even looking into this problem and when they expect to have a fix.

Thanks

 

[Lauraloo]

This is a SERIOUS problem!

This is a SERIOUS problem!

We're having this same problem, which is also a deal breaker as far as using CS5; we have literally thousands of labels using placed .psd files that we don't want to have to resave as PDFs. Consistent color is extremely important in our biz, and a number of files have likely slipped through the cracks already as we never guessed this would be an issue now!

 

[Lukas Engqvist]

Consistent colour is important to most of us. Just a quick question, did anyone try placing a PSD in CS4 and then opening in CS5? Just thinking to locate if the bug is in the importing stage. I know it wouldn't solve the problem, but might help to pinpoint it wich is the first stage to getting it fixed.

 

[CHM]

Consistent colour is important to most of us. Just a quick question, did anyone try placing a PSD in CS4 and then opening in CS5? Just thinking to locate if the bug is in the importing stage. I know it wouldn't solve the problem, but might help to pinpoint it wich is the first stage to getting it fixed.

Yes Lukas, as soon you open and resave in CS5 its wrong.

 

[Lukas Engqvist]

ooo that is disturbing. It means you must need to know if it contains placed image with spots before you open with CS5. And no warning like with legacy text?

 

[chevalier]

I now have a file that is CMYK + A Custom Match color. The screened raster image in Photoshop are in has an area in the 40s that when placed in Illustrator CS5 drops into the 20s. The white knock-out text becomes unreadable.

Repeat the whole process in CS4 and the screened areas in the raster image do not change.

Has anyone reached out to Adobe on this one?