image reduction - do not want.

[txcynna]

We have a problem and I can't figure out what the deal is. When I send pdf files from my machine to our bizhub 6500 we are losing up to .25 inch in size on the long edge and a sixteenth (or less) on the short edge. So, an 8.5x11 image will end up 8.43ish x 10.75ish when printed 2 up on an 11x17 sheet.

The only thing that I can see that is happening is that the measurement from my end, which is all in inches is getting to the bizhub in points and the point measurements at that end are not the original measurements when converted back to inches.

Being relatively new at this shop can anyone tell me why this is happening and how we can fix it? I have checked the settings at my end and everything seems to be right. (page print sizes etc. are correct dimensions) I'm guessing that there is some setting over at the bizhub end that needs tweaking but again, I don't know much about that end of the shop.

Today we are experiencing this issue on 13x19 paper. I was wondering if the size of the paper might be part of the problem since that is pretty much maximum size from what I'm told. However, same file was printed yesterday on 11x17 and it did the same thing.

Can anyone shed some light on this for me? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

[brent]

You should leave about 3/8 blank to be safe around each edge. Copiers (or presses) cannot print to the edge of the sheet.

 

[txcynna]

I cannot type in the first things that popped into my head when I read that. I'll just say that we are not even close to printing to the edge of the sheet.

Those were just example measurements to make clear where the shrinkage is occurring. I apparently failed... or used too many words since the inches (my end) to points (bizhub end) not being equal statement was completely ignored and I'm positive that this is where the problem lies.

To be clear.
If there is an 11x17 sheet the centered image is shrinking up to .25" in the 11 inch direction... not in the 17.

Sorry. I'm cranky.
Also... I hate that I get logged out of this forum before I finish entering a post. What's up with that?

 

[dabob]

Possibly a dumb answer but are you printing from within acrobat??? If you are there is a setting in the print dialog box that says page scaling - makes sure its set to none . . . my best guess

 

[natty]

Hehe i understood your first post fine...

This is way too much shrinkage to be paper shrinkage so it must be somewhere in how you submit the jobs to the rip...

Do you import the PDF's directly into the rip already imposed ???

Do you impose in the rip ???

Do you print the files to the rip as postscript ???

We would need to know the exact process of how the files get to the rip because it would have to be happening at one of these stages...

 

[tppsg]

8.5" x 11" cannot be printed 2up on 11" x 17" paper, except for documents with white margins.

 

[txcynna]

Thank you all for your responses. I'm relatively new to digital press having spent most of my last 11 years working 4-color sheetfeds and webs.It's a whole new animal and I'm sorry if I sometimes sound dumb or ask obvious questions. I'm learning as fast as I can. Also? This continues to make me cranky and I need more coffee... or maybe a Guinness.


@dabob- page scaling is set to none.

@natty- Yeah pretty sure it's not shrinkage. The numbers are wrong before it even processes to print. I've been blaming the bizhub but may more likely be fiery since the numbers go wrong there?

How jobs are submitted.. (has been done the same way here since the dawn of time or thereabouts) PDFs are imposed before being sent to bizhub fiery, we do not impose in the rip. We send PDFs always never PS files and most of the time things go through to exactly the size they were sent.

Apparently all the measurements on jobs sent from my computer show up as points in the fiery window. (I just found this out today. yay communication!!)

Is it possible that fiery is having a problem converting the measurements from inches to points only on the larger sheets of stock? If it is, the problem only exists when dealing with the bizhub. I can send files to the Canon BW copier (which also goes through fiery) and to my desktop laser printer and they come out to size. So my thinking is a bizhub setting in fiery maybe?

We did have a service guy out replacing bits and pieces that were worn.. maybe he did it? I sure would like to blame him...

@tppsg- OMG no. Pretend like I never said 8.5x11 or pretend like I did say 12x18 and not 11x17

 

[prakashshetty_thane]

Thank you all for your responses. I'm relatively new to digital press having spent most of my last 11 years working 4-color sheetfeds and webs.It's a whole new animal and I'm sorry if I sometimes sound dumb or ask obvious questions. I'm learning as fast as I can. Also? This continues to make me cranky and I need more coffee... or maybe a Guinness.


@dabob- page scaling is set to none.

@natty- Yeah pretty sure it's not shrinkage. The numbers are wrong before it even processes to print. I've been blaming the bizhub but may more likely be fiery since the numbers go wrong there?

How jobs are submitted.. (has been done the same way here since the dawn of time or thereabouts) PDFs are imposed before being sent to bizhub fiery, we do not impose in the rip. We send PDFs always never PS files and most of the time things go through to exactly the size they were sent.

Apparently all the measurements on jobs sent from my computer show up as points in the fiery window. (I just found this out today. yay communication!!)

Is it possible that fiery is having a problem converting the measurements from inches to points only on the larger sheets of stock? If it is, the problem only exists when dealing with the bizhub. I can send files to the Canon BW copier (which also goes through fiery) and to my desktop laser printer and they come out to size. So my thinking is a bizhub setting in fiery maybe?

We did have a service guy out replacing bits and pieces that were worn.. maybe he did it? I sure would like to blame him...

@tppsg- OMG no. Pretend like I never said 8.5x11 or pretend like I did say 12x18 and not 11x17

Have you tried this..
First of all try to change the points setting in the CWS to inches/mm as per your size setting.To change the setting log in to CWS, go to edit, preferences and change the size setting from points to inches/mm.
Hope it works in your case.

 

[chrisg42]

image reduction - do not want

image reduction - do not want

Have you tried this..
First of all try to change the points setting in the CWS to inches/mm as per your size setting.To change the setting log in to CWS, go to edit, preferences and change the size setting from points to inches/mm.
Hope it works in your case.

As the previous poster hints, there is no "conversion" taking place when your job goes to the Fiery. Command Workstation can display measuremnts in points, inches or mm; this is selectable as described. And even if there was an inch/points rounding, it could not account for as much as 0.25in.

On our 6500 we see image "shrinkage" in the process direction. This can be up to about 1mm on an SRA3 sheet: so 1mm in 450mm which I make about 0.03in in 17in. It varies with the stock used, and any variation in the cross-process direction (short edge) is undetectable.

It isn't therefore likely that your change in image size is due to this variation. Whenever we see this sort of large change, our first port of call is to check that Acrobat is not set to "Fit to printable area", but you have already said that this is not the case.

There is a similar setting on the Fiery (Layout tab in CWS) which can also be set to "Scale to fit". This obviously should not be selected and Scale 100% used.

If it is not one of these settings, then I don't know what to suggest. If you have the Graphic Arts kit, you can open the file in Acrobat on the Fiery and make measurements in the image. That should at least tell you whether the size change is occurring between computer and Fiery or Fiery and print engine.

Hope this helps.

 

[txcynna]

OMG you guys rock!
I changes the preferences to inches rather than points and ran one of the jobs that was giving me grief and it measures out fine now. Off center a wee bit but the measurements are almost dead on.

I find it peculiar that changing the fiery from points to inches would make a difference but apparently it does. Does anyone know if this has been an issue for anyone else? To me the size should not have changed at all regardless of whether it is measured in inches or points.

Again. You guys all rock.. If you're ever in Dallas I'll buy you a drink. No I won't - but if I had money I totally would.