imagePRESS 850C or Versant 180?

[CharlieHustle]

I've got a relatively small local government print shop and its time to replace my Xerox 550. We've had xerox machines here consistently since the doors opened over 15 years ago but with things being super competitive and budgets tight, I figured I would look around to see whats out there.

The two machines that are being pushed my way are the Canon imagePRESS C850 and the Xerox Versant 180 Press. Previously Xerox quoted me on the Versant 80 but I have a meeting with a sales person soon to try to sell me on the 180 which she says is the new model.

We are looking to kill a few birds with one stone here. Replacing the Xerox 550 that has an expiring contract and leasing a machine that we can transition our AB Dick print press operations to, which is mainly envelopes and some NCR. The machine will also be used for a heavier business card stock. The envelopes option is the main concern I have with this replacement since our print press operator is at retirement age and I can't justify keeping the AB Dick around much longer.

The pricing I've received so far has the imagepress coming in at quite a bit less per month than the Versant 80 pricing that I was given a few months back (havent gotten a quote for the Versant 180 but I am guessing the total will be similar to the Versant 80). The click cost on the imagepress is also less expensive than the xerox, around 1/2 cent less for b/w and around .01 less for color.

These pricing differences make me wonder if I've missed something. The machines seem to be on the same level. The Canon salesperson told me today that the quote they gave me is on level with the Performance Package on the Versant 80. They said that Canon is being very aggressive targeting taking out and are offering some extremely competitive pricing right now. The Xerox rep told me yesterday that the Versant 180 is an upgrade over the Versant 80 due to it having a dedicated envelope attachment that can be placed in 2 paper trays. I was also told that Xerox is not even selling the 80 anymore, only the 180.

At this point I'm considering moving to Canon due to the price differences and that I cannot find any reviews at all for the 180 online...

Does anyone have any positives or negatives for either of these machines? I know the Versant 180 is relatively new and not many people have info on it but I figured I would ask here.

I'm looking for info on color consistency and how these machines print envelopes and business cards that may sometimes be double sided. My main concern is if we can run a large amount of envelopes (windowed and non windowed) thru these machines with relatively no issue.

 

[namelessentity]

I replied to your other thread, but we have a 750 and it's been nearly worthless for envelopes. I honestly wish they'd never even said it could do it because it's been nothing but headaches having to tell the sales team that the 500 envelope job they placed is jamming every third sheet. The bypass tray is also the worst bypass tray I've ever used. The sheets float so much that nothing holds well for registration.

I am really happy with the print quality, and it's been a good backup for our 10,000 when needed, but if you're looking for an envelope printer I'd definitely look at the Versant since so many users here seem to use it for that purpose without issue.

 

[CharlieHustle]

I just saw the other thread. That's not mine but I appreciate the info. That's a definite red flag since I'm looking to replace the press that runs the envelopes.

 

[Lorenzo lab guy]

Our V80 works well with envelopes and we got a "3/4 click"option for smaller pieces as compared to the standard 13x19 click.
I wonder if you need the 'Performance Package" on the V180. We looked at it on the V80 and decided it was not needed for our volumes. If you dropped that option I wonder if the price would be more competitive.
We had a Xerox 550 and really disliked it - curling issues and the base fiery was really crippled. We went backwards for a while to a 700 and then went ahead to the V80. We have been happy with out V80 at 10 months of operation. We can run super-heavy stock with few issues - don't tell Xerox. We print photo oriented material and are happy with that demanding application.
I can't say anything bad about the Canon - good overall reputation. They used to be a bit pricier than Xerox when we last looked.

As always, your comfort level with local support is a key consideration - a good tech is worth his weight in gold toner.

 

[silviuv]

When I first bought my imagepress C800 it was a great machine in my opinion. Over time maybe my expectations grew, but with usage (now at 600k) it has some problems.
I started looking around. My local Xerox rep let me test my own stock. Overall I found the V80 to be very similar in performance to my C800, almost no distinction. The deal breaker to leasing a new v80 was it had poor results on textured paper (the c800 is perfect on 90% of textures).
i also tested the KM C7000; on a simgle day's test it seemed a "good enogh" machine Cheap to buy. Same click price.
​​​I did not test envelopes on the V80. What I can say about C800 is that it can print reliably on quality envelopes (100-120gsm paper). Thiner paper envelopes usualy jam; if the press operator has the know-how, some settings are available to solve the handling problems.
My advice: test each machine with your own stock. It's the only way.

 

[drosin6701]

hi this is my first post, I am currently being presented with the same 2 options. the xerox versant 180 and the Canon c850. I understand that the versant can handle 360 GSM and the c850 tops out at 300, we do a lot of heavy cardstock so I am leaning toward the versant. since it has been a couple of months I was wondering if anyone had an update? maybe your experience can help me decide. thank you

 

[Keith]

I'm looking at the same comparison as well- Versant 180 vs Canon 750/850. As mentioned, the Canon is considerably less money in terms of clicks and lease payments. What I found interesting was the results of a survey I participated in through the National Printing Research Council. The Canon scored higher than the Versant 80/180 in a lot of areas. I would recommend purchasing the study. It will help answer a lot of your questions. Ever since my first Xerox in 2009, I have purchased surveys and reviews to help me with my purchases. There is another professional review company that I used but I can't seem to remember it. I think it was called Better Business Buys or something.

I am not employed nor do I receive any compensation from NPRC. I'm not trying to sell anything. I found the survey useful and want to share it and obviously can't tell you details without violating copyrights.

 

[A&BPat]

Im considering the Versant Vs Canon options as well. The problem with the Canon is they won't handle synthetic stocks. I provided them with 10 sheets of Synaps 10 mil, the reply a couple weeks later was can't do it. Synthetics are becoming a larger part of my business so that is a deal breaker.

 

[Keith]

The problem with the Canon is they won't handle synthetic stocks..

Oooohh. That would be a deal breaker for me as well. I print a lot of adhesive vinyl and polyester.

 

[drosin6701]

Im considering the Versant Vs Canon options as well. The problem with the Canon is they won't handle synthetic stocks. I provided them with 10 sheets of Synaps 10 mil, the reply a couple weeks later was can't do it. Synthetics are becoming a larger part of my business so that is a deal breaker.

that would also be a problem for us, we are looking to expand into that area. have you tried stock from masterpiece graphics? they sell synthetics that they say will work on Canon printers

 

[jdr999]

We have both a 700 and 850 in our shop.

The 850 is now rated at 350 gsm according to our rep.

Envelopes seem to run well IF they do the service fix for them. I'm not exactly sure what they do, but I think they line certain parts of the unit with tape to prevent the envelopes from getting crumpled. No complaints as it seems to work. We've run thousands of envelopes on the 700... I'm not sure about window envelopes though.

We also run 10 mil. / 300 gsm Synaps Digital XM in both the 700 and 850. No trouble at all.. Bumping up the secondary transfer voltage seems to help with color and coverage.

I will say the POD Deck Lite on my 700 is more reliable than the decks I have on the 850. They tend to be much more finicky. No trouble feeding 16 pt. C2S Productolith on the 700, but the 850 is hit or miss --- mostly miss.

Sometimes I wish I jumped right up to the 8000.................

 

[A&BPat]

jdr999, I was told by the Canon Reps at the Print Canada show this spring they can't run Synthetics. I packed up 10 sheets for my local sales rep, he responded a couple weeks later they can't do it. Now Im confused, does Canon in your area recommend it?