Indigo vs Heidelberg QM DI

[dagoof]

Was hoping someone could give me some advice on this topic - I've tried searching the web but the comparison never really seems to come up. I'm considering a machine on which to print greetings cards and now that some of the digital presses are a few years older they're becoming viable price wise (though I realise there are complications with parts, consumables and maintenance).

We were looking at perhaps a slightly older 2 color off-set press but a few people have suggested going digital. I'm looking for info on the strengths and capabilities of each machine (probably Indigo 3050), what can one do that the other can't etc (is the QM DI a better substitute for off-set but lacks variable data capabilities? Also, what's the viability of each for smaller runs, around 200 impressions?). In terms of usage, we will probably only be requiring around 250k impressions per year, and can be split into 5k batches.

 

[ROCPrinter]

If you are looking to produce greeting cards a digital press would be best. I would not go for an old HP though. I have two Indigo's right now (a 5000 & a 5500) and I am doing 190,000 sheets per month or approx. 1.3million clicks (each one sided 4/C sheet is 4 clicks).

If you are only looking to print 250,000 sheets per year a digital device like a Xerox 700 or a Konica 6500 would work great. I did have a Xerox 700 at one time and it prints on 12pt. no problem and you can use a variety of digital stocks from your local paper shop. Indigo's should have Sapphire treated stocks if your going to print solid coverages. The Sapphire treated papers cost up to 50% more as well! Take it from me I have two of them and I am also in Rochester, NY and The Rochester Institute of Technology is the stock certification facility for HP.

I do love the Indigo's don't get me wrong or else I would not have purchased them but for your quantities it just does not make sense...

Good Luck!

P.S.- These digital devices can do variable data as well just purchase a beefier RIP if your going to get into that market.

 

[nhprinter]

is the QM DI a better substitute for off-set

I don't want to suggest what you SHOULD get, but I CAN tell you that a QM-DI is offset. If you are not already an offset shop this will lead you down an expensive road. Also.....the DI also doesn't like to sit idle. With the amount of impressions you're talking, you might have problems. ie..dust, roller settings....

Good Luck in your search,

Dave

 

[dagoof]

Thanks for the replies.

ROC - I know what you're saying, whilst the digital machines you mention are by all accounts good machines, it seems a little light weight for our uses, wouldn't have thought they'd stand up to being abused by heavy stocks for that long. Also not sure how toner based would go along with finishing (like UV). And would've thought consumable costs would be very high, the drums don't last long at these weights, probably lucky to get 5-7K impressions out of a set?

Dave - we do some single color offset. A QMDI would be quite a big undertaking for us but, financially, would probably pay for itself in the 1st year. Just a little apprehensive about knowing what to look for and the fact it would get pretty expensive if things go wrong!

 

[MacDaddy]

I would disagree I have KM 6500 run 12pt all the time. On about 25 thousand a month you will probably have 1 service call a month. Some last 15 minutes some if they have to change developer or do a pm might take hour or two. Just run multiple up on a 12 x 18 same click charge for 8.5 x 11. Tech lighting has a great uv coater that works with this machine for around 10 thousand.

 

[Ret Heidelberg Instructor]

Ret Heidelberg Instructor

Ret Heidelberg Instructor

Here is my 2 cents on the subject. If you can get a good working DI Pro cheap then you might be OK. Heidelberg doesn't make the DI anymore and hasn't for over 10 years. The technology is obsolete although waterless printing is still viable, They still support them but parts and service if you can get it can be costly. You need a knowlegeable pressman to run one, believe me I know I used to train the operators. You are a lot further ahead with someone that knows ink on paper. The new digital machines are good and getting better. Good luck with your choice.

 

[dagoof]

Thanks again for the info.

I've tried older copiers and, whilst there's probably little comparison, they still suffer banding, background toning and toner bubbling - was just a little worried something like the 6500 would still suffer these to some effect. Out of interest, would an impression could of 2 million be considered too high on a contract maintained 6500?

 

[Nissh]

Hi !
With your volume, don't go for indigo. It is very expensive and need a lot of skill to maintain. Sapphire treated is expensive and not environmental friendly. Certified stock is good but depends on your area. By the way, the scratch resistance is quite bad for 100% coverage.

You may try Canon Imagepress for low volume print.

Regards
Andy

 

[dagoof]

Thanks Andy, any particular Imagepress worth checking out?

 

[Nissh]

I had a friend that run imagepress for his small volume photo magazine shop. He compared with Indigo 5000 and imagepress. The quality of the print is Indigo 5000 is the best but imagepress is acceptable but it need quite a lot of investment to start. Such as higher power, temperature / humidity control and skilled operator. As his operation is small volume, his business make more sense to get a printer with acceptable print quality. Although the running cost is higher.

Service support is also a main thing that you must consider. Check on the total cost vs your volume. Indigo maintanence is costly when you don't have enough volume. At the end, your profit & loss is the bottomline.

 

[Elbertjolley]

We have a QM DiPro and two Indigos a 5500 and a 7000. We do about 1.5-2 million clicks a month. From what i have read you would be better off with the Indigo because plain and simple the Di can be a picking machine when it come to sitting like was stated earlier. I was really excited when we first got the Di now I wish it would just go AWAY! For short runs the Di can't touch the Indigo for very long runs the Di would be better just because of the speed limitions of the Indigo. Do a search here for Di issue and that may help you to make up your mind

 

[dagoof]

Holy thread revival Batman!

We went for a 6500 in the end, only been using it a few weeks and not really done anything serious on it yet. The quality is very good...but I'm finding speed is an issue. To get it running on heavy stock, the settings are slowing it down pretty severely - you're only talking maybe 15ppm! So, great machine but maybe not quite right for our manufacturing.