Is the Xerox Versant 180 good enough?

[JimStan]

Hi, I run a small publishing company and we use an external print company - but we're looking at investing in a refurbished Xerox Versant 180 with booklet and finishing extras.

We print fairly thick, high quality brochures and catalogues each month (approx. 3000 copies, with 64 A4 pages). So the idea printing ourselves digitally would be to use SRA3 with 4 pages per sheet.

We've had mixed advice on whether it's worth printing in-house or continuing with a 3rd party supplier. Can anyone here advise on if the Xerox 180 is up to the job? Anything higher spec is out of our price range unfortunately (like the 3100 etc).

Some suppliers have said that it will cost too much in toner and surplus, and would be cheaper to keep using the third party printing company. Others have said we can make a saving, partly due to be able to claim taxes back on toner and paper which we can't do currently when outsourcing. It would also mean we can print on-demand without having to grow to any Minimum Order Quantity, and we could do small runs of other projects/work on the side in addition...

Looking at the Xerox website, advertisements, videos on YouTube etc, the machine looks up to spec (some big numbers are stated like 80,000 pages per month etc) - but, those who have advised more negatively have worried me.

Does anyone have experience on how reliable these older machines really are, and if printing in-house can still present a decent saving per unit? Thanks for any advice and help.

 

[pippip]

We have a v80 and I would never dream of even attempting x3k copies of 64pp. Printing litho would be fraction of the price and much better quality.

For starters, if you got the top speed model that job would take the machine over 40hrs to print. That's not including any finishing, don't think the booklet maker would be capable of 64pages and if it did I reckon you could double that time.

 

[JimStan]

Hi thanks for the reply. Sorry, I should have said it is really only 16 pages (2 per side on A3 duplex)... I think the booklet maker is supposed to handle quite a few more than this, unless I've misunderstood?

 

[pippip]

Looking at the specs the booklet makers should handle that once it's light stock which im guessing it would be anyway. Is it all the same stock or is the cover heavier?

Does the booklet have light or heavy ink coverage?

Are you getting it on a click charge to cover toner and service or do you have to buy toner and service yourself?

 

[tngcas]

That's 16 sheets of paper. Whether it's doable or not depends on the thickness of the paper. If it's 16 sheets of 20lb bond vs. 16 sheets of 100lb Text. My experience with Xerox finishing equipment was the max we could do was 10 sheets of 28lb (that's a 40pg booklet) with maybe a thicker cover but anything beyond that wouldn't fit inside the staples.

 

[pippip]

Just for reference, we're about to purchase a new machine and as such getting best rate available.
On a single order of x3000 64pp A4 all on 130gsm silk, saddle stitched.
At the colour click rate we're being quoted on a brand new machine I could get the complete job from a trade printers delivered for less than my click alone would be to Xerox. That's before I purchase paper or even consider the hours involved in printing/finishing and packaging. And time wise it would be delivered before the Xerox was even half way through.

 

[Magnus59]

Hi thanks for the reply. Sorry, I should have said it is really only 16 pages (2 per side on A3 duplex)... I think the booklet maker is supposed to handle quite a few more than this, unless I've misunderstood?

You're original specification of 64pp is correct, you should always specify the total number of printed, finished size pages in a book, never try to specify printed flat sheets, you will just cause confusion.
64pp CAN be produced on a booklet maker or collate/stitch/bend/trim machine such as a Horizon collator, but, depending on stock, is close to the limit for that type of finishing. You get a much better result with folded sections on a collate stitch and trim machine eg. Muller Martini.
Assuming the 3000 books are a single publication and not a total of various smaller runs, this is much better suited to offset, and most print shops that have only digital equipment would outsource this to a trade printer.

 

[TJPrinter]

I wouldn’t put that job on my Versant 280, I’d send the job out. The 80,000 is a recommended monthly volume and it’s based on a 8½x11 or A4 sheet. If I understand correctly, you’d be running 3,000 64 page A4 size booklets a month. That would be 96,000 clicks just to print your 3,000 booklets. You can certainly go over the recommended volume but it does mean that service will be there more often, most likely when you need to get the job done.

Even if you went up to the 3100, you’d still have the same finisher as the 180 and the same problems. I can run a 64 page booklet on the 280 but that’s when printing on uncoated 75gsm not a coated 148gsm sheet like you’d probably want.

Stick with the advice that other here and some of the honest vendors have given, send the job out. If you’re not happy with your current printer, talk to some other nearby shops.

 

[AP90]

I don't think you guys have looked at the finishing capabilities of the 180 and 280 recently. If you get the production booklet maker you can do up to 120 page booklets at 20lb. Ive done 96 page 80lb cover with 80lb text before. Lied to the machine about gsm as I believe it maxes out at 80 pages with 80lb but it printed quite nicely. And was nice just grabbing the book and putting it straight into the box.

 

[beckybutterfly]

The Xerox Versant 180 is a great option for professional printing with
High-quality output (2400 x 2400 dpi)
Versatile media support (up to 350 gsm)
Fast printing at 80 pages per minute
Automation for color and finishing options
However, it's expensive and requires space and expertise, making it ideal for print shops or large businesses.

 

[TJPrinter]

I don't think you guys have looked at the finishing capabilities of the 180 and 280 recently. If you get the production booklet maker you can do up to 120 page booklets at 20lb. Ive done 96 page 80lb cover with 80lb text before. Lied to the machine about gsm as I believe it maxes out at 80 pages with 80lb but it printed quite nicely. And was nice just grabbing the book and putting it straight into the box.

The OP wasn’t specific about the paper that was going to be used, but did say it was fairly thick high quality. When a customer says something like this, I normally skip using 80lb/118gsm coated text and go with 100lb/148gsm coated text. It may be possible to run a 64 page booklet on 148gsm through the production ready finisher but it won’t be supported by Xerox and that’s where the problem is, the OP is thinking of buying a 180 specifically for this job. If the OP already had the 180 and wanted to know if a 64 page booklet could be run on 148gsm I’d say go for it. If it doesn’t work send it out. But this is a purchase with no turning back if it can’t do the job it was bought for, even if the sales rep said it would work.

At 96,000 clicks on coated stock I'd be replacing the 2nd BTR at least 3 times just to finish the job on my 280.

 

[MailGuru]

The Xerox Versant 180 is a great option for professional printing with
High-quality output (2400 x 2400 dpi)
Versatile media support (up to 350 gsm)
Fast printing at 80 pages per minute
Automation for color and finishing options
However, it's expensive and requires space and expertise, making it ideal for print shops or large businesses.

I don't understand this response. It starts out like she is a sales rep for Xerox (Pro V180), then says it's expensive, requires space and expertise (Con V180), and then finishes up by saying it's Ideal for print shops and large businesses (Pro V180).

I'm confused..............

 

[Stickman42]

I don't understand this response. It starts out like she is a sales rep for Xerox (Pro V180), then says it's expensive, requires space and expertise (Con V180), and then finishes up by saying it's Ideal for print shops and large businesses (Pro V180).

I'm confused..............

I'm calling bot on this one.

 

[namelessentity]

I don't understand this response. It starts out like she is a sales rep for Xerox (Pro V180), then says it's expensive, requires space and expertise (Con V180), and then finishes up by saying it's Ideal for print shops and large businesses (Pro V180).

I'm confused..............

98% sure it's just an AI chatbot. I reported it. You get a longer winded, but nearly identical answer by asking AI "is the xerox 180 good enough?"

 

[MailGuru]

Yes, I'm an old boomer. Retired.

But, I still don't understand. Can someone please explain to me what the objective of a bot's response is?

It's not trying to sell me anything, convince me to do anything, use a service, etc.

So..........What's in it for the bot?

 

[Stickman42]

What's in it for the bot?

That's a question I've been wanting to get answered also.

 

[PricelineNegotiator]

I'm calling bot on this one.

Just check out their website. What printer misspells stationery? I was typing out the same response this morning and decided to not hit send.

 

[MailGuru]

So............was it the bot's purpose to drive you to their website?

 

[Stickman42]

So............was it the bot's purpose to drive you to their website?

Interesting theory...

Google street view actually shows VegaPrint as a physical shop. I remember another bot incident a few months back and it also originated in the UK.

 

[PricelineNegotiator]

So............was it the bot's purpose to drive you to their website?

My thought is that it's a throwaway identity made by a real person, that is tied to that shop.