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KM 1075 / 1085 vs. Xerox Versant 80 vs Ricoh C7100

I have been looking at the 7110x. Have you experience any of these problems that others have posted. Here are some extracts.

...disappointing was the clear toner. It was only really visible on thin silk paper, when increasing the stock weight it was even weaker than standard which wasn't good to start with, almost totally invisible on a 350gsm matt we tried, so spot uv effects for business cards are out.

...16 pt Tango C2S and similar stock. When it was first installed we had a lot of jamming and the technician assured us it would just take time to dial in all the settings for the paper library. This seemed to be the case and we were getting less jamming as we tweaked the settings for each paper. However our profile for 14 pt Tango used to work reasonably well, about a week ago however it started jamming non-stop (Jam errors J431 and J471).

...less than impressed with the air feeder on this thing. It seems to be very finicky, what worked last week no longer works today. I've taken to putting everything under 300 gsm into the trays under the engine (friction fed). At least they feed reasonably well without tons of fiddling.

...getting jams with codes J080 and J099. At least 10 to 15 per day.

The 7110 choud be compared to Xerox Versant 2110 / KM 1085. Espacially white dots in prints after 300k prints, and tons of RIP problems. The only real good thing about the 7110 is the registration.

...tons of problems, espiacilly with the fierry rip. And also jams. I removed above 200 jams on 170.000 prints, thats around 850 prinst/jam. (plus the jams are of the worst kind, where you almost can´t remove the paper without tearing it apart. And then you have to remove ths small parts too. The purge tray catch maybe 1/10 jammed papers. Before I bought I got the idea that i would catch 90%)
I use the same paper that I used in my xerox 700, without problems.
On the Ricoh 7110 I have the vacuum paper feeders (x2), that should be the holy grail of paper feeders. But they are just to sensitive, and jam a lot.

... jam very regularly. Mostly on 100lb cover and higher

1: Sometimes the print is perfect, 30 prints later its full of white dots.
2: The first two month it was perfect, always.
3: I can make it a bit better by NOT using "textured" paper mode, but nowhere as good as our old Xerox 700
4: Ricoh says it´s because of airpressure and humidity changes. Which I think is rubbish, because they can´t tell me what the correct pressure/humidity need to be.
I have the same problems as you. But I have one extremely annoying problem. The machins SUCK at textured paper. That should have been one of the main features with the Ricoh 7100 machine with AC transfer and all. But I have those problems when I am running 240g textured paper.
1: Sometimes the print is perfect, 30 prints later its full of white dots.
2: The first two month it was perfect, always.
3: I can make it a bit better by NOT using "textured" paper mode, but nowhere as good as our old Xerox 700
4: Ricoh says it´s because of airpressure and humidity changes. Which I think is rubbish, because they can´t tell me what the correct pressure/humidity need to be.
 
Thanks everyone for posting your comments on this thread.

Our replacement Digital Press for our 700i is on its way to us atm.

I did some duplexing today on the 700i, 300gsm duplexing in SRA3 size gives me about 7 clics a minute if the 700i doesn't do it's pregnant pause to check something or heat the fuser some more. The colour is washed out again in the solids and tints, the decurlers don't decurl 300gsm too well, paper jams from tray 6 on 300gsm for every job from that tray, jobs never printed parallel to lead edge.

I printed a run of business cards on SRA4 size (225mm x 320mm), 10 up yesterday, job has an orange tint background all over the card, so did calibration and to start with job ran ok for 30 sheets then colour changed, then another 30 or sheets the colour went darker again. So at the end of the run there were four different colour shifts on a 200 run :(

The new Digital Press coming has full Rated Speed and will Duplex 350gsm. The print jobs are already starting accumulate to be printed 350gsm both single sided and duplex.
 
Thanks everyone for posting your comments on this thread.

Our replacement Digital Press for our 700i is on its way to us atm.

I did some duplexing today on the 700i, 300gsm duplexing in SRA3 size gives me about 7 clics a minute if the 700i doesn't do it's pregnant pause to check something or heat the fuser some more. The colour is washed out again in the solids and tints, the decurlers don't decurl 300gsm too well, paper jams from tray 6 on 300gsm for every job from that tray, jobs never printed parallel to lead edge.

I printed a run of business cards on SRA4 size (225mm x 320mm), 10 up yesterday, job has an orange tint background all over the card, so did calibration and to start with job ran ok for 30 sheets then colour changed, then another 30 or sheets the colour went darker again. So at the end of the run there were four different colour shifts on a 200 run :(

The new Digital Press coming has full Rated Speed and will Duplex 350gsm. The print jobs are already starting accumulate to be printed 350gsm both single sided and duplex.

Sounds like you got the Versant 80 or Versant 2100?
 
Versant 80 NOT HAPPY!!!

We have had our Versant 80 for about 5 months. Up until a month ago it had been brilliant. We have just found out that there are major issues with the duplex unit. The Mylar which lines the duplex unit creases and the image skews. We have had two new duplex units installed and just today it has started to fail again. It is a very costly fault in regards to wasted impressions and the cost of reprinting the effected work. It has meant that we have to check every job that we do every 50 or so pages to catch it before it costs us hundreds of dollars in wasted work. Is anyone else having this problem.
 
I am with Xerox and am the marketing manager for the Xerox Versant 80 Press. Some pretty significant differences between the Versant 80 and 2100 press. I like to put it in three buckets: 1) speed / duty cycle – or level of production capability; 2) automation – with 2100 the Full Width Array provides almost total automation on the 80 you have to do some functions like scan a sheet if you want to create a image to media alignment profile; 3) foot print & price point – the 2100 is more robust, bigger, has more automation and features and if you have that level of production the right choice, the 80 has many of the same features, is smaller and less cost because it does not have all features (or they are done differently / not as automated).

Image Quality – is identical on both the Versant 80 & 2100. It is the same fusing system and toner (newly formulated for Versant). They both have Ultra HD – which is 10 bit, or four times the standard press pixels on a page when using EFI controller. This assumes you are using good processes to get your results – and they should be indistinguishable. However, the level of production robustness, automation, and duty cycle are different (if you are doing closer to 80K a month go with V80 – over 100K consistently a month look at the V2100).

I did a Google Hangout with the two customers who did the Versant 80 Early Customer Engagement test with me before we brought the product to market – you can view it here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dnLhjkdK-O0 (first part is about Ultra HD skip to about 19 minutes in to hear from Tim and Betsy on V80 press) . Here is what Cortland Press said (they never had a Xerox product) about using the Versant 80 for a few months http://youtu.be/FEmZ6KAUhzg and Alphaset is keeping the V80 but getting a few V2100’s because they needed the extra production.

Hope this helps.


Does the 2100 have the duplex issues that the 80 does
 
Our 700i has it's last day here today. Due to space requirements its out with the old one today and in with the new one tomorrow. It'll interesting with a 56 programme to print Friday arvo on the new one amongst other jobs.
 
Our 700i has it's last day here today. Due to space requirements its out with the old one today and in with the new one tomorrow. It'll interesting with a 56 programme to print Friday arvo on the new one amongst other jobs.

Which new machine did you end up choosing?
 
Very good run out of the KM C1085 today. Bit of learning curve from Freeflow to 308 Fiery. First Job was a 48 page programme. Just under 6,000 clics.
 
Next job was 50 only diecut A4 size labels 12 up. Straight through under a minute. I'll post on this thread how I go with the C1085. It's a huge huge investment for us.
 
I'm impressed with the jobs coming out of the C1085 in that when they get to guillotine for trimming they are dead flat unlike the 700i we had with curling and rippling. There is a de-humidifer in the paper drawers and re-humidifier after the print engine. The registration and squareness on the sheet is very good with cutting through both sides of the sheet flats through the trim marks. The tints and screens far surpass the 700i massively. Today we worked out how to achieve high gloss prints, increased colour gamet for a client who likes this type of printing that we did on the 700i. The skin tones with normal printing are excellent, but this has a lot do with the job design and photoshop techniques in setting up the jobs. The rated print speed is fantastic,

Paper Jams: I've had 2 paper jams on A4 80gsm bond and this was because we didn't have air feed turned on in the paper tray, it was actually double sheeting. Thats the only paper jam we have had. We've run 80, 100, 120, 160, 200, 300 and 350gsm gloss and matt and no jams :)

The only down side so far is the Fiery 308 Server. We did the upgrade a couple of days ago to 5.7 and this has given us a lot of grief. We are now reinstalled to 5.5.
 
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Well we're just through 40,000 clics so far, replaced one set of toners during the last 2 days,

Would I go back to 700i? Never!

We do lots of small jobs so lots of setups but with the Fiery has Impose feature which makes its easy.

The paper control we have when setting up the jobs to print is excellent. 80gsm bond is the only stock I get paper jams and this because I haven't put tray one auto air assist, I forget to manually adjust the air assist, so I get double sheeting.

The calibration takes only a couple of minutes for the 2 calibrations I use one for gloss stock and one for matt stock and we use these 2 calibrations for all the gloss or matt stocks loaded into Paper Catalogue

It's rated speed that I love, 43 x SRA3 clics per minute on 80gsm up to 350gsm.

We print business cards 10 up on SRA4 and a job of 2,000 cards last week simplex on 350gsm stock under 2.5 minutes with perfect registration.

We had a power failure last week which upset the connection between the Fiery and C1085 but it was easily fixed, in fact when we have had some probs they are fixed by the technicians very quickly.

I think the Rehumidifier was one of the best things we got with the C1085, all the jobs come off the press flat, no paper curl on ends, no uneven rolling ripples.

I can get better over gloss effect with this machine than the 700i, this arvo I overglossed 750 x SRA3 128gsm gloss stock and duplex to give that nice shine to some advertising flyers which will be trimmed to A4 and then C folded Offline on the C1085 tomorrow. Perfect registration on this job from start to finish as well. We test folded some prints to see how bad the cracking is when C folding and its nothing like what we got on the 700i, sure there is a bit but its a huge difference from the 700i days.

This C1085 Digital Press gives us: Speed; Accuracy and lots of Control.

PS We haven't had the need or request for gold printing, or white printing, or even clear printing so far.
 
No one would ask you to go back to the 700i . You were going to your next machine or next contract .
Comparing a model previous with the latest model from another manufacture isn't apples with apples. Comparing with 2100 versant is a fairer one or the new richo.
 
No one would ask you to go back to the 700i . You were going to your next machine or next contract .
Comparing a model previous with the latest model from another manufacture isn't apples with apples. Comparing with 2100 versant is a fairer one or the new richo.

Thanks for pointing that out. I've been seeing it a lot on here. People always talk about how you don't want to keep a digital press longer than 5 years because the technology advances so much, but then compare the new machine to 8 year old technology. I could compare my new 1000i to a KM C8000 and I bet you'd guess which one would win hands down. Instead Id need to compare it to the canon 7110 and new KM's, indigo, and igen 5. Then we're talking apples to apples (although the iGen really is in a different class).
 
No one would ask you to go back to the 700i . You were going to your next machine or next contract .
Comparing a model previous with the latest model from another manufacture isn't apples with apples. Comparing with 2100 versant is a fairer one or the new richo.
Yes you are right, comparison back to old is unrealistic. I don't see many other printers who have new KM's on Print planet atm. I do see some probs with Versant 80's and Ricoh's in the other posts. Time to push the print button on the C1085 as she done the warmup. We nick-named her "Betty Blue".
 
5 weeks since the install of Betty Blue. I had a call from the supplier yesterday asking how the digital press was going as I had not logged any service calls for a couple of weeks. I just said the press just keeps on going no matter what stock we run. No errors, no jams now I've adjusted tray 1 to auto. Did some testing on Electrostatic stock and it prints beautiful prints. The registration is very very good. Did a 6,000 clic programme yesterday arvo, no jams and the job completed in about half the time of the old machine. So, we are very happy with KM C1085 so far.
 
It's coming up to 2 months since the install. We're having a dream run at the moment as I still have not had to log a Service Call yet. There is one 300gsm uncoated stock that I have found won't give solid colour, it prints ok but it just gives a mottled appearance which is the actual stock, but lesser weights in the same stock range print a lot better, and all our other stock weights up to 350gsm matt and gloss stocks print very well. The Fiery RIP is a definite bonus for us especially with the Impose software module. The decibels seem to have increased over what the 700i used to make, but so has the speed massively.
 

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