Xerox Versant 80- Purchase?

[rwyeth]

What are your thoughts on buying a used Xerox Versant 80? I bought this KM C8000 back in February (I should have done more research). The C8000 has its problems, regularly; however, I have managed to keep it plugging along this long. And, I have gotten my couple thousand dollar investment out of it. I don't mind working on it some; but, I am not comfortable expanding my little dining room based print business with its unreliability. There is a Xerox Versant 80 with feeder, and booklet maker for sale near me with just under a million impressions.

-Is it known in the printing world to be more reliable than my KM C8000?
-I plan to call my local Xerox people tomorrow. What are chances that they will still work on it when I have an issue?
-Overall impressions of the machine?

I've primarily been running business cards (110lb Cardstock) and NCR on the C8000. The Versant line seems like it is fairly versatile in its abilities.

 

[azehnali]

who will service it?

 

[pippip]

In Europe the v80 is end of life at end of 2023.

 

[Ynot_UK]

@rwyeth If you keep looking at end of life machines, irrespective of manufacturer, you'll be jumping out of the frying pan into the fire. As a home-based start-up, you'd be better off with a modern MFP device, on a click contract. That way, when there's a problem, you pick up the phone and you know exactly how much it costs to operate, with no nasty surprises.
You'll be able to produce a variety of pretty decent output on it and will quickly learn it's limitations and the workarounds.
Have a look at the KM MFPs - that's how we started. These 'office' machines are small footprint, relatively quiet compared to a production machine and use a standard wall socket.

 

[gazfocus]

We have a Xerox Versant 80 and I do like it, it can auto calibrate the front and back registration which is a huge plus over other machines in its class. That said, our main printer is a Konica C3070 and I love it much more than the Xerox.

As Ynot_UK says, a Konica MFP might be better for you, though I'd be suprised if you can get one that'd do 110lb cardstock.

 

[Ynot_UK]

As Ynot_UK says, a Konica MFP might be better for you, though I'd be suprised if you can get one that'd do 110lb cardstock.

110LB is 300GSM in English money, which indeed may be pushing it a bit.
However before getting the C4080, we used to use 250GSM regularly on our C454 and C554. Obviously you can't auto duplex and are limited to the bypass tray for a straight paper path, although with a little manual assistance the registration was pretty spot on!

 

[gazfocus]

110LB is 300GSM in English money, which indeed may be pushing it a bit.
However before getting the C4080, we used to use 250GSM regularly on our C454 and C554. Obviously you can't auto duplex and are limited to the bypass tray for a straight paper path, although with a little manual assistance the registration was pretty spot on!

I've tried 250gsm coated stock on our KM C458 but its quite thin, I did try 350gsm coated and the machine just laughed at me haha.

Out of interest, what's the C4080 like? I think that's what I'll be getting as an upgrade to our C3070 at some point.

 

[Ynot_UK]

Out of interest, what's the C4080 like? I think that's what I'll be getting as an upgrade to our C3070 at some point.

We've been pleased with it overall...

• Registration maintains well during a long job, after doing front & back settings adjustment
• Colour consistency is good throughout a job, e.g. when comparing sheet #1 with sheet #2000, however occasionally you get very slight inconsistency across an SRA3 sheet (e.g. on a 4-up job)
• Tray 1 & 2 under the engine are pretty useless for anything apart from 80GSM/100GSM office paper.
• PF707m vacuum drawers are great
• We have the LU-202XLM as Tray 6 but haven't used it enough to review
• We have the KM RIP as opposed to Fiery - this certainly wasn't their finest hour - lots of teething issues, although subsequent firmware updates have improved it. Although I don't think the RIP has sufficient RAM, this affects the way jobs drip feed to the engine and don't correctly report time remaining.
• We don't have the IQ-501 so calibrate with the spectrometer

 

[gazfocus]

We've been pleased with it overall...

• Registration maintains well during a long job, after doing front & back settings adjustment
• Colour consistency is good throughout a job, e.g. when comparing sheet #1 with sheet #2000, however occasionally you get very slight inconsistency across an SRA3 sheet (e.g. on a 4-up job)
• Tray 1 & 2 under the engine are pretty useless for anything apart from 80GSM/100GSM office paper.
• PF707m vacuum drawers are great
• We have the LU-202XLM as Tray 6 but haven't used it enough to review
• We have the KM RIP as opposed to Fiery - this certainly wasn't their finest hour - lots of teething issues, although subsequent firmware updates have improved it. Although I don't think the RIP has sufficient RAM, this affects the way jobs drip feed to the engine and don't correctly report time remaining.
• We don't have the IQ-501 so calibrate with the spectrometer

Thanks for that. Doesn't sound too dissimilar to our C3070. We definitely get colour inconsistency across an SRA3 sheet, but not super noticeable for most of the stuff we print. I'm sure there's a calibration of some discription that can sort it but haven't played with it enough to find it as most of the time the printer just works.

Yes, we have the PF707m drawers and they are fab. They are the one thing that made me go for the Konica over the Xerox at the time. If we buy the C4080, I will be going for the LU-202XLM so I can do A4 landscape brochures/tri fold menus, etc.

We've got the integrated fiery on our C3070 as I couldn't justify the expense of the stand alone unit. It's a shame the KM Rip isn't up to scratch though.

 

[Ynot_UK]

We've got the integrated fiery on our C3070 as I couldn't justify the expense of the stand alone unit. It's a shame the KM Rip isn't up to scratch though.

It's OK for what we do since the last firmware update, however we came through the ranks of MFPs before buying the two KM production machines (the other is a Pro951) hence we had no Fiery experience.

For anyone coming from a Fiery background, I would definitely not recommend an OEM RIP instead.

 

[TJPrinter]

If you can get a Versant 80 under a full-service contract for a great price, then it can be a very productive machine. It won’t have accurate front to back registration for heavier stocks like 12pt, you’ll need to simplex those, and this problem has been fixed with the current Versant 280.

No service contract, then I wouldn’t recommend it or any other machine this old. Be warned that if you’re buying a used Versant from an end user or a dealer that hasn’t certified it, you could be buying a machine that is loaded with old defective toner and removing ALL the toner is not an easy task. The defective toner will destroy your drums one after the other unless ALL the defective toner has been removed.

I'd forget about the finishing options and buy the newest version of a light production machine that I could afford.

 

[wonderings]

Like others have said I would not jump into a digital press without a service contract. There is always going to be something you will need and it is nice having support there to get you any part you need without you paying (on top of your contract) for it. I had a Versant 2100 and loved the press, super versatile and consistent. If the V80 is anything like the 2100 it is a good solid printer. I would shop around though to all the major brands, Konica, Xerox, Canon and Ricoh and let them sell you what is best for your needs. Things like monthly volume are also helpful on top of the types of stocks you need and want to be able to run.

 

[YourCastle]

I liked my v80, but end of life was last year and at the end of last year, getting parts for it was difficult, specifically booklet maker parts.

I would not buy anything that didn't have a regular supply chain for parts going forward.

I heard of a woman in Florida who bought an electric vehicle at a great price. Reason was, the guy selling it knew they didn't make parts for it any more and she didn't do her research. Some months later, some EV parts broke, she can't get it fixed, and now it's a very expensive paperweight.

So, if you can get service (or even purchase a second v80 cheaply for parts), then sure, i liked my v80.

 

[rwyeth]

Thank you all for your advice. I called around today to find my local Konica and Xerox reps. Although, I am adventurous I would like the reliability and piece of mind of something newer that I know who to call when I can't resolve the issue. I'll see what they have to say. My issue when looking at smaller office type machines is the cost of toner seems outrageous compared to any production press. Any thoughts on anything smaller that can handle heavier stock?
Thank you again!

 

[gazfocus]

Thank you all for your advice. I called around today to find my local Konica and Xerox reps. Although, I am adventurous I would like the reliability and piece of mind of something newer that I know who to call when I can't resolve the issue. I'll see what they have to say. My issue when looking at smaller office type machines is the cost of toner seems outrageous compared to any production press. Any thoughts on anything smaller that can handle heavier stock?
Thank you again!

Office copier dealers tend to charge a double click on larger sheets so unless you can negotiate a lower rate, I can see why you say they’re expensive. However, if you go down the route or buying an office copier and service it yourself, you can get the toners off eBay quite cheaply (check toner availability before buying the printer).

We have two Konica MFP’s that we have purely for office use. We paid £600 for one of them (for the warehouse) and about £1,000 for a newer model with booklet finisher for the office (basically so we could staple bank statements etc). We get the toners off eBay, usually for about £30-50 each and they have a pretty high yield.

 

[Ynot_UK]

My issue when looking at smaller office type machines is the cost of toner seems outrageous compared to any production press.

What have you been quoted for colour and black & white clicks on a modern MFP?
If you share some numbers on here, we can guide you as to whether it is reasonable.
When negotiating click charges, volume is key, as from the dealer/OEM's stance they're not going to want responsibility and call outs for a machine doing just say 1,000 clicks per month. Hence as a new customer, you may have a monthly charge apply if you're not registering a commercially viable click count.
Also a good point that @gazfocus makes above about MFPs - generally 1 click is A4 and an A3/SRA3 sheet is 2 clicks.
Watch out when printing documents originating in MS Office, including PDFs generated from Word/Powerpoint - you'll often find what you think is B/W is full colour black. You can check & correct this in Acrobat Pro >Print Production >Output Preview

 

[rwyeth]

So, how do I even go about finding an authorized dealer/servicer of Konica Equipment in my area? Or, are there third parties that handle service contracts? In searching the internet, I can find a Konica Business Solutions office fairly close to me. I called; but, I only got an option to leave a message with the operator. The other name that came up locally was Marco; I have a call out to them as well. It doesn't seem like Konica is doing a very good job trying to sell equipment. Am I missing something?

 

[Ynot_UK]

So, how do I even go about finding an authorized dealer/servicer of Konica Equipment in my area? Or, are there third parties that handle service contracts?

No doubt someone your side of the pond will be along to answer this for you.

In the UK, we have the choice of dealing with the OEM's sales force or an accredited/approved dealer. This accreditation is important, since they have to jump through hoops regarding training & machine familiarisation to become and remain approved, which gives them access to buy parts and consumables through the official channels.

We have been fortunate in having the same dealer & engineer for 20+ years. When making enquiries before buying production machines a few years back, I sounded out the OEM channel and disliked their pre-programmed 'one size fits all' hard sell approach and am very glad we stuck with the dealer channel.

Things may work different stateside and YMMV.

 

[gazfocus]

No doubt someone your side of the pond will be along to answer this for you.

In the UK, we have the choice of dealing with the OEM's sales force or an accredited/approved dealer. This accreditation is important, since they have to jump through hoops regarding training & machine familiarisation to become and remain approved, which gives them access to buy parts and consumables through the official channels.

We have been fortunate in having the same dealer & engineer for 20+ years. When making enquiries before buying production machines a few years back, I sounded out the OEM channel and disliked their pre-programmed 'one size fits all' hard sell approach and am very glad we stuck with the dealer channel.

Things may work different stateside and YMMV.

We've had the opposite experience to a degree (also in UK). We bought our Konica C3070 direct from Konica and while I did feel their sales technique was somewhat aggressive, they had much more ability to give us a good deal and I pushed them hard. We got the C3070 with the PF-706, the PK-522 and the FS-532 and integrated Fiery for just shy of £19k+vat. We've had very good service from Konica direct, although we do get a different tech each time.

Xerox on the other hand don't seem to deal direct so we have no choice but to use a dealer, the tech we get for our Xerox V80 is very knowledgable but it's always a bit frustrating when they come, locate the fault, then have to order parts to fix it vs Konicas techs having a car load of parts with them.

 

[Ynot_UK]

We got the C3070 with the PF-706...

@gazfocus 706 or 707m?