Xerox Versant 80- Purchase?

[gazfocus]

@gazfocus 706 or 707m?

Apologies, think it’s the 707 (non m version) as 400gsm wasn’t an option when I bought my 3070.

 

[pippip]

With Xerox we found the 3rd party dealers far more aggressive in sales. Bought an old 3535 with them and bought off Xerox direct for the DC242 and V80.

We're lucky in that Xerox stores are within 10km of us so techs literally see what they need and go get it immediately if its in stock or not in their car.
Otherwise it's overnight shipping from Netherlands.

 

[Ynot_UK]

According to specs, the C4070 / C4080 engine is rated to 360GSM. Whilst the PF-707m supports 400GSM in the bottom tray, this is when used with the higher specced engines C7090 and above.

 

[rwyeth]

I'm still really struggling to find a Konica dealer in my area. I've filled out the contact form on Konica's official site. I've called Marco, who apparently took over some smaller dealers that I tried to call. All I can get from them is an email wanting to set up an online meeting. I called the Konica Business Solutions office closest to me and left a message with no returned call. I called another seemingly independent dealer to find that they also must have been taken over by a larger company Imagetec; they at least answered the phone. They are not sure they service my area but are supposed to call back. I'm really just amazed at how hard it seems to be to get in touch with anyone. I assumed that as soon as I filled out a contact form I would be getting calls trying to sell me equipment. Is it because I am 60+ miles from the nearest large city? Or, are they all just big enough to not be interested in replacing my one press?

 

[azehnali]

what about xerox service?

 

[Ynot_UK]

I'm still really struggling to find a Konica dealer in my area. I've filled out the contact form on Konica's official site. I've called Marco, who apparently took over some smaller dealers that I tried to call. All I can get from them is an email wanting to set up an online meeting.

An online meeting is standard protocol with the OEM channel nowadays - I recommend you take up the offer, there's no obligation and you have nothing to lose. For comparative purposes, also explore Ricoh's offerings. Oh, and as you're relatively new to the forum, just a tip - beware of people on here trying to flog you refurbed xerox kit (just ignore it!)

As previously mentioned, do also explore the dealer network, if that channel exists like it does in the UK/Europe. I guess we are fortunate in being with a smaller dealer and getting very personal service, with a regular highly experienced engineer who attends same day 90% of the time.

 

[TJPrinter]

For some reason I’ve had the same problem with KM in my area in the past. Maybe the area or just a lazy salesperson, don’t know but you should look at what everyone has to offer, KM, Canon, Ricoh and Xerox. They’ll all have something to fit your needs, but an unresponsive vendor is a good sign of what’s to come.

I was with Xerox direct for years and now I'm with a dealer and they provide excellent service, same tech on all the calls and almost always same day response.

 

[rwyeth]

I finally spoke with a Konica representative on Friday and am working with him to see what they recommend and get some pricing. Konica Business Solutions and Marco haven't called me back yet. I left messages with both and filled out their online information request forms. As for other brands, I have a call out to a Xerox dealer; the person I talked to sounded promising. She is supposed to have someone call me.

 

[pippip]

In Europe the v80 is end of life at end of 2023.

Just to update. I've now been informed my V80 won't be EOL till end of 2024, the 2100 is end of 2023.
I'd initially only been told by some engineers that were in and I was wondering why Xerox hadn't been officially onto me, especially to sell me a new machine.
A software analyst in now just made a call for me and confirmed 2024 on their system.

Bit more breathing room for us to decide on upgrade.

 

[YourCastle]

Just to update. I've now been informed my V80 won't be EOL till end of 2024, the 2100 is end of 2023.
I'd initially only been told by some engineers that were in and I was wondering why Xerox hadn't been officially onto me, especially to sell me a new machine.
A software analyst in now just made a call for me and confirmed 2024 on their system.

Bit more breathing room for us to decide on upgrade.

well, now I'm wondering if my sales rep mislead my company as we were told EOL V80 was end of last year. Next time they come at me with EOL noise, I'm going to ask for some more info.

 

[rwyeth]

So, I finally got a quote from a Konica rep. I'm going to ask more about used equipment, as I'm not ready to go all in on my side job. But, I was quoted a new C4065 with high capacity feeder (LU-202XLm, and FS-532 finisher with SD-510, Fiery, and Envelope Fuser for $37,338 and $346/month service contract. The service contract includes 5,000 B&W (0.019 base rate) and 3,000 Color (0.08 base rate). Thoughts, comments...

 

[adriansto]

Just to update. I've now been informed my V80 won't be EOL till end of 2024, the 2100 is end of 2023.
I'd initially only been told by some engineers that were in and I was wondering why Xerox hadn't been officially onto me, especially to sell me a new machine.
A software analyst in now just made a call for me and confirmed 2024 on their system.

Bit more breathing room for us to decide on upgrade.

The service manual ( edoc ) is common for V80/180 and 280.
Many many spare parts is also common for this production multifunctional family. So , I think, it can be under contract with Xerox many years from now. Also are independent techs. They can do a good service for V80. In fact any good copiers tech can service this unit if he have service manual and follow the procedure from sm.

 

[pippip]

The service manual ( edoc ) is common for V80/180 and 280.
Many many spare parts is also common for this production multifunctional family. So , I think, it can be under contract with Xerox many years from now. Also are independent techs. They can do a good service for V80. In fact any good copiers tech can service this unit if he have service manual and follow the procedure from sm.

Alot of the parts/supplies are common to the V80/180/280 but alot aren't. At the end of the day if the parts cannot be immediately accessed by the Xerox (or independent) techs then the service contract is useless, especially it it's your only press.
For us being a small shop we couldn't continue with an end of life machine.

 

[Ynot_UK]

So, I finally got a quote from a Konica rep. I'm going to ask more about used equipment, as I'm not ready to go all in on my side job. But, I was quoted a new C4065 with high capacity feeder (LU-202XLm, and FS-532 finisher with SD-510, Fiery, and Envelope Fuser for $37,338 and $346/month service contract. The service contract includes 5,000 B&W (0.019 base rate) and 3,000 Color (0.08 base rate). Thoughts, comments...

That’s just under 30k GBP, which seems excessive and more than we paid for a C4080 with PF-707m vacuum feed deck and LU-202Xlm. Although we have the OT-510 and KM’s OEM controller, so that saved a bit over the Fiery option and we bought ours at the end of 2020, so pricing may have moved since then.

The service contract you've been offered looks to be a poor deal IMO.

• The inclusive clicks are very overpriced - around double where they should be
• I'd wager you can't carry forward clicks from one month to the next, so if you don't use them within the month, that is dead money
• The color to B/W mix seems very B/W top heavy for a colour machine. Just looking at our latest PO, we clicked 15k color versus only 323 B/W on our C4080 last month. Although we do have the Pro951 for B/W which did 46k, so with a single machine you'll do more B/W than us, although 63% B/W is questionable (YMMV)
• I can understand from an OEM/dealer POV as a start-up, minimum charges need to apply to make you commercially viable to support, and they know are likely to require more callouts in your first year. However don't agree to contract pricing that could easily strangle your business if you don't make the numbers. There have been others on here in a similar position, ruined by leasing and support payments with little work to square the circle
• Check the small print to ensure there's no additional charges that apply after 12 months for supporting the Fiery

 

[TJPrinter]

So, I finally got a quote from a Konica rep. I'm going to ask more about used equipment, as I'm not ready to go all in on my side job. But, I was quoted a new C4065 with high capacity feeder (LU-202XLm, and FS-532 finisher with SD-510, Fiery, and Envelope Fuser for $37,338 and $346/month service contract. The service contract includes 5,000 B&W (0.019 base rate) and 3,000 Color (0.08 base rate). Thoughts, comments...

It will be very difficult to stay competitive with such a high click charge. Even at a lower volume it's two times what it should be. Don't let this sales rep tank your new business before you even get started. I don't like service base charges and I always let them know ahead of time that I won't agree to a minimum base charge for service.

Look elsewhere for a light production press. Try contacting Xerox about a used certified Versant 180 Xerox Certified Used Equipment

Your service click charge will be slightly higher on a used machine compared to new, but not even close to .08 for color.

 

[rwyeth]

It will be very difficult to stay competitive with such a high click charge. Even at a lower volume it's two times what it should be. Don't let this sales rep tank your new business before you even get started. I don't like service base charges and I always let them know ahead of time that I won't agree to a minimum base charge for service.

Look elsewhere for a light production press. Try contacting Xerox about a used certified Versant 180 Xerox Certified Used Equipment

Your service click charge will be slightly higher on a used machine compared to new, but not even close to .08 for color.

Thanks for your input. I am actually planning to talk to Xerox tomorrow. I believe they have a used V180 locally. I let you know what I find out.

 

[rwyeth]

That’s just under 30k GBP, which seems excessive and more than we paid for a C4080 with PF-707m vacuum feed deck and LU-202Xlm. Although we have the OT-510 and KM’s OEM controller, so that saved a bit over the Fiery option and we bought ours at the end of 2020, so pricing may have moved since then.

The service contract you've been offered looks to be a poor deal IMO.

• The inclusive clicks are very overpriced - around double where they should be
• I'd wager you can't carry forward clicks from one month to the next, so if you don't use them within the month, that is dead money
• The color to B/W mix seems very B/W top heavy for a colour machine. Just looking at our latest PO, we clicked 15k color versus only 323 B/W on our C4080 last month. Although we do have the Pro951 for B/W which did 46k, so with a single machine you'll do more B/W than us, although 63% B/W is questionable (YMMV)
• I can understand from an OEM/dealer POV as a start-up, minimum charges need to apply to make you commercially viable to support, and they know are likely to require more callouts in your first year. However don't agree to contract pricing that could easily strangle your business if you don't make the numbers. There have been others on here in a similar position, ruined by leasing and support payments with little work to square the circle
• Check the small print to ensure there's no additional charges that apply after 12 months for supporting the Fiery

Thank you. I was surprised when they came to me with this offer. It all seemed rather inflated to me; but, I wanted other input. I will be speaking with them tomorrow to see what they have to say.

 

[Ynot_UK]

Thank you. I was surprised when they came to me with this offer. It all seemed rather inflated to me; but, I wanted other input. I will be speaking with them tomorrow to see what they have to say.

Is there a dealer network your side of the pond? In the UK, we are fortunate in having the choice of OEM or dealer channels.
Before buying our C4080, for comparison we enquired of the OEM route and the high-pressure, mediocre-knowledge salesman quickly got our backs up.

If you have similar options, you may be pleasantly surprised by the difference in what's on offer.
For where your business is at the moment, this could work so much to your advantage, as a dealer's focus is on a long term relationship with you and a machine they'll maintain for the next five years, as opposed to making a quick buck, after which you'll be dead to the salesman.

I should add that my comments are based on our own experiences with KM's UK field sales team versus those with our dealer. There are no doubt great OEM people out there, indeed one ex-OEM person in particular who regularly contributes on this forum and has been a great steer as to the machines we bought, whose knowledge is second to none and his advise is always bang on the money.

 

[rwyeth]

Is there a dealer network your side of the pond? In the UK, we are fortunate in having the choice of OEM or dealer channels.
Before buying our C4080, for comparison we enquired of the OEM route and the high-pressure, mediocre-knowledge salesman quickly got our backs up.

If you have similar options, you may be pleasantly surprised by the difference in what's on offer.
For where your business is at the moment, this could work so much to your advantage, as a dealer's focus is on a long term relationship with you and a machine they'll maintain for the next five years, as opposed to making a quick buck, after which you'll be dead to the salesman.

I should add that my comments are based on our own experiences with KM's UK field sales team versus those with our dealer. There are no doubt great OEM people out there, indeed one ex-OEM person in particular who regularly contributes on this forum and has been a great steer as to the machines we bought, whose knowledge is second to none and his advise is always bang on the money.

I still haven't been able to get a call back from KM Business Solutions. I'm working with a KM dealer at the moment. I expressed my concerns with the quote I was given for the C4065; and, I he is looking at pricing on a demo model C658. The C658 will likely be more in my price range as a part-time expanding business. But, I'll see what he comes back with in terms of price and service.

I spoke with a Xerox dealer this morning. They are looking at what they have used and are supposed to be getting back to me.

Thoughts on the C658 for NCR and some business cards?

 

[Ynot_UK]

Thoughts on the C658 for NCR and some business cards?

Check the specs

• It will only do 300GSM from the bypass tray, which irrespective of manufacturer, is the worst paper source for accurate registration. The other trays are rated to 256GSM maximum. Business cards should be 300GSM minimum, ideally 350GSM (IMO)
  • Business cards are typically unforgiving when it comes to less than perfect registration (given their small size and the proximity of text to the edges)
• I couldn't see coated substrates mentioned, so you'd have to confirm or try your NCR stock. If you take some along to a demo, you need to run a good few hundred to see if it's going to be problematic.
  • Our Pro951 doesn't like self adhesive labels, nor carbonless, so labels go through the C454 MFP and carbonless on the C4080