Konica c6501 vs Xerox docucolor 260

[JLSquared]

The C6501 is the replacement for the C6500. Stay clear of the embedded Fiery if you plan on doing any type of VDP other than FreeForm, because it does not have the power needed, and will lock up. The Xerox DC700 was designed to compete with the C6500/6501. The DC260 can't handle the heavy gloss stocks that the C6501 can. By the way, if your not in a hurry you may want to check out the soon to be released Ricoh Pro C900.

 

[random]

Hard to say since we are so new. We got the KM6500 mid july and we are at 174000.
Of course we were not really doing much real work in july and early aug.

We are new to digital "printers", are there supposed to be so many tech visits? We've had eight so far this month.

You are not really doing enough volume for a happy machine. But in saying that 8 a month is a bit over board. If you could be more specific with what your problems have been I may be able to help you.

 

[Craig]

That's good Craig - I don't have anything personal against Fiery, our experience has just been that we have not been able to do good color work with it. We are very meticulous about calibrating every morning also. Glad your 8000 is working well. Do you have any commercial accounts that you print for that complain about the sheen from the Xerox? That was the main reason we bought the 650 for our second color machine.

None what so ever, as a matter of fact we sell to one of the other printers in town that prints 4 color on Heidelberg's and they find it hard to believe how well it prints. In All Weights Node there is very little sheen, but I do have a few customers request the sheen look .

 

[Craig]

Sounds like a printer driver issue and/or a RIP issue. I would not think this would pertain to In Design.

Could be spot color transparencies as well.

 

[Steve_S]

... but I do have a few customers request the sheen look .

That is why we have not ditched the 6060. We have a couple clients that absolutely will not do without that baked on pile.

 

[Craig]

We are new to digital "printers", are there supposed to be so many tech visits? We've had eight so far this month.

WOW.... brings back bad memories with Canon.

 

[ginfay]

Does anyone else have any input regarding the Spectrophotometer? I'm thinking about adding this option to the 6501 (Fiery). Is it really essential and what does it do?

 

[random]

Well, really - it's a bit of a necessity if you want to be accurate with your colors. If you don't have one then you would be calibrating using the scanner which could alter in time depending on how clean the tech keeps the optics.

If you deal a bit with spot colors then I wouldn't think twice about getting one. Your client could bring in there corporate colours (which may not be a pantone (it happens)) and all you would need to do is sample the color with the spectro and it is in the rip.

But if near enough is good enough and spots aren't your thing then you could give it a miss. These are just a couple of things you could do depending on the software you get with it.

 

[Steve_S]

Spectrophotometer

Spectrophotometer

Does anyone else have any input regarding the Spectrophotometer?

Unless you plan to use it as a copier, you will need the device to keep color calibrated. If you try from the glass, not only are you at the mercy of your tech's cleanliness, but you are relying on the "copier" technology of the machine to control color for your print engine.

 

[graphic914]

I was looking into the 260, what should I expect to pay monthly on a lease? Probably need the fiery and pro finisher by the way.

 

[ginfay]

Well, really - it's a bit of a necessity if you want to be accurate with your colors. If you don't have one then you would be calibrating using the scanner which could alter in time depending on how clean the tech keeps the optics.

If you deal a bit with spot colors then I wouldn't think twice about getting one. Your client could bring in there corporate colours (which may not be a pantone (it happens)) and all you would need to do is sample the color with the spectro and it is in the rip.

But if near enough is good enough and spots aren't your thing then you could give it a miss. These are just a couple of things you could do depending on the software you get with it.

I'm just curious, but are people starting to use the km6501 or similar machines to do spot color work? Are you taking jobs off the press and running it with the 6501?

I do a lot of spot color but have not tried to do any spot color work on the 6501. I try to keep the spot color jobs on the press and mostly run non-spot color stuff on the copier.

 

[Steve_S]

Spot

Spot

I'm just curious, but are people starting to use the km6501 or similar machines to do spot color work? Are you taking jobs off the press and running it with the 6501?

Absolutely. We made that decision before ours was even delivered. Every business card we run now goes digital unless it is part of a high end corporate identity package where multiple pieces go together off press. Our customers love the consistency of knowing they don't have half a box where the pressman was a little light on ink or a little heavy on water. The only other reason we plate business cards is for thermo or spot + foil. And you can run a lot of bc's on the 6500 before a plate cost is covered, let alone paying a pressman.

 

[ginfay]

Absolutely. We made that decision before ours was even delivered. Every business card we run now goes digital unless it is part of a high end corporate identity package where multiple pieces go together off press. Our customers love the consistency of knowing they don't have half a box where the pressman was a little light on ink or a little heavy on water. The only other reason we plate business cards is for thermo or spot + foil. And you can run a lot of bc's on the 6500 before a plate cost is covered, let alone paying a pressman.

I can see this being true if you have a new customer but it would be hard to move previous printed spot color business card jobs to the 6501. I just can't see the quality being the same when you print a spot color on the press and then trying to run that same job on the copier.

 

[Steve_S]

Spot Color

Spot Color

We do it all the time and we have very picky customers. A lot of it comes down to set up and having a solid operator. There have been very few Pantones we cannot reproduce accurately and have very pleased customers to show for it.

We also have done a lot of Black plus 2 spots and offer the customer a better rate. They save some, but we make so much more than that hassle on press.

Also, we run almost every black ink business card on the digital color machines also. It doesn't make sense to do it any other way. For a black click, it takes about 8 - 10k cards before you can justify a plate.

 

[ginfay]

SnappySteve,

I'm curious again, do you run business cards 12-up or 24-up? I find it hard to register and cut when running 24-up BC.

 

[Steve_S]

business cards

business cards

We run all of our cards 20 up on a template for our Duplo DC645 slitter and have no trouble with cut accuracy. Do you do tray alignment checks on your 6500?

 

[ginfay]

The machine is still fairly new to me so I've never done the alignment. I guess I should figure out how to do that.

Does that DC645 do gutter cuts for full bleed business cards? I've been looking for a good gutter cut slitter. I'm currently using the cutter to make those cuts and it's extremely time consuming.

 

[Steve_S]

Trays

Trays

Your service technician should have showed you that as part of the training. Have them come and show you soon. We save the paper profiles we use most often matched to a specific tray.

 

[Steve_S]

Dc645

Dc645

Sorry I missed that second part, the DC 645 cuts full bleed. We use the same template for all. The business card slitter and die scoring were the main reasons we bought it but you'll need some volume as it is a spendy piece of gear. And Duplo is $$$ on service.

 

[smiller]

cards

cards

What is the most common media weights and types you use for your cards on the KM?