Konica c6501 vs Xerox docucolor 260

[Steve_S]

Cards

Cards

We Stock 80# Cougar Opaque Cover, 80# Classic Linen Cover, 100# 111# & 130# Pacesetter Prodigital Gloss Cover, and 12 Pt Kromekote CC1S but we'll run anything a customer would like to try. We just ran a bunch of cards on 92# Curious Metallics cover for a trade show. All the heavy stuff ( ie 11#, 12pt, 130#) we feed only from Tray 5.

 

[Chet]

I run a C6500 and a Docucolor 260. The C6500 is a real workhorse. I use it the most. The Konica service is really good and can really recommend you to get this machine over the Xerox. The C6500 can duplex card stock up to 210 gms on 13x19 paper at much faster speed than the Xerox. The Docucolor is no match to that. The overall quality on the Xerox is however better in most cases. Especially when you print grey backgrounds, The C6500 sucks compared to the Xerox in that regard. The C6500 has a banding problem and no matter how many service calls you place, they will never be able to fix it fully. The Xerox will give you a shiny finish when printing on Glossy stock while C6500 will not do that and will turn gloss into a matt finish. The Xerox service sucks and their technicians are annoying. (at least the ones that come here) They make you feel guilty for having something wrong with the machine. The toll free number for Xerox is also really annoying and they make you wait a lot. and, considering that compared to the konica, you're going to place more calls per click this is not a good attribute.

 

[random]

Chet,

In regards to the banding, assumeing you hold a 13x19 in landscape do the bands run from left to right or top to bottom.

 

[ginfay]

We Stock 80# Cougar Opaque Cover, 80# Classic Linen Cover, 100# 111# & 130# Pacesetter Prodigital Gloss Cover, and 12 Pt Kromekote CC1S but we'll run anything a customer would like to try. We just ran a bunch of cards on 92# Curious Metallics cover for a trade show. All the heavy stuff ( ie 11#, 12pt, 130#) we feed only from Tray 5.

Steve,

How did the output come out on the Curious Metallics stock? I had a customer asking for this stock but I wasn't sure if it would come out using the 6501.

 

[quickfred]

240/260 cost & spec

240/260 cost & spec

We have had the fully-specced 240 for 2 yrs; truly excellent; the 260 is just a bit faster. Built-in basic rip excellent, no problems ever. Pro (booklet) finisher likewise. Most machines costing about £500 month on lease. If you go with full Xerox high-end agent they can upgrade more easily after 3.5 years. We are just looking to upgrade ours (or sell on independently) to X700 or km6501 or similar; faster. Will cost about £850 month.

 

[Bal digit]

I'm considering upgrading my current km c500 to either a 6501 or a 260. I've been through most of the threads and have not seen this comparison -- although there's been a lot of mention of both machines. From speaking to other folks in the industry, I am leaning toward the 6501. Any thoughts?

If you want a KM Pro 6501, give me a shout, i work for a large dealership. let me the spec your after & i'll send a quote over. Regards J

 

[quickfred]

6501 v260

6501 v260

If you want a KM Pro 6501, give me a shout, i work for a large dealership. let me the spec your after & i'll send a quote over. Regards J

Looking immediately to buy 6501/6600 with creo, bkltmaker, high capacity SRA3 decks. [email protected] I reckon the 6501 has better registration than 260 but image is slightly better on 240-260 range (both excellent though)

 

[Craig]

If you want a KM Pro 6501, give me a shout, i work for a large dealership. let me the spec your after & i'll send a quote over. Regards J

Will this quote be made public on the forum, just as your sales pitch was?

 

[random]

Will this quote be made public on the forum, just as your sales pitch was?

Didn't know you were in the market Craig! Just think if you get a c6500 you will be able to duplex spot colors and the color will be the same on EACH SIDE!

 

[Craig]

Didn't know you were in the market Craig! Just think if you get a c6500 you will be able to duplex spot colors and the color will be the same on EACH SIDE!

My RIP is a Fiery which is Pantone calibrated nothing new, Creo is the same, and has been. DocuColor 7000/8000AP color variance is less than 5 delta E, and front to back registration is +/- 0.5mm. I may be wrong but Canon ImagePress is the same. What is the color variance on a 6500... up to 10 delta E!!! (Based on the presentation Random posted on this forum from Konica Minolta) I'm sure you can duplex 90gsm paper all day long on the 6500, but start running 300gsm and I bet you get a different result with registration, oh I'm sorry I forgot you have to manually duplex that.

Printing in CMYK will NEVER be able to produce the entire Pantone library it's out of gamut. You are making a false statement! You show me a CMYK device whether digital or offset (only printing in process) that will produce the entire Pantone library accurately without a change in the color and I'll eat the paper it's printed on. Go out and buy a small little swatch book called The Pantone Bridge, you'll see my point. Some devices are getting closer, but go try to print PMS 801 and see how it looks compared to the spot color.

 

[random]

Yep the c6500 had a dE of 10 but we don't have that machine any more we have the c6501 and that has a dE of 4. Even then can't say I have seen a print job that was as bad as 10. The point is that there are Pantone colors in your gamut and from one sheet to the next I would expect them to be the same.

Unfortunatly due the oil in your fuser it is impossible to have the front and back colors the same unless you build a profile for each side. That or use "Xerox certified $tocks" when your margin will fly out the door.

Go to one of your clients and get some coated offset stocks fill the page will a spot colour within your range and duplex it. Assumeing it will feed it let us know the dE difference from front to back. Lets see if it is the same as the machine I have seen.

 

[Craig]

Unfortunatly due the oil in your fuser it is impossible to have the front and back colors the same unless you build a profile for each side. That or use "Xerox certified $tocks" when your margin will fly out the door.

Random, you are 100% wrong and have absolutely know clue what you are talking about!

Again you just prove you only have one answer and that is KM 6500/6501... and the dE is 5 or less on the 6501 not 4.

 

[random]

1dE! Cry me a river. Just do the test - Unless your chicken.

 

[Craig]

I already have, and it is less than 2dE on average though one spot was 2.1dE.

Again you biased is transparent, go back to fixing machines and leave the printing to the printers.

By the way, your off topic.

 

[User Name]

End all debates

End all debates

You only have to see the color that comes off the 65hc (High Chroma) to end this debate. The most brilliant color with all the same strong paper handling abilities and oil-less fusing to give a press quality output.
Yes, I too work for KM, but this is the most incredible color I've ever seen come off a digital press.

 

[aqa-man]

high chroma

high chroma

Yes its got unique brilliant colours; if its what you need, especially for posters or where a difficult colour is required (very bright orange, yellow, etc especially) its ideal; downside is the premium cost all round and it doesnt fit a cmyk workflow naturally.

 

[Jtamoe46]

The Xerox Docucolor 700 as previously mentioned is the product that falls into the same class 6501. I am an Agent for Xerox and have beat the stuffing out the Konica Minolta rep in town. If your Xerox rep can't get you a deal that is close in price on the 700 versus the 6501, then they are not being creative enough.

Of course if your preference is the 6501 then go with that, but cost should not be a factor between the two.

 

[Steve_S]

The Xerox Docucolor 700 as previously mentioned is the product that falls into the same class 6501. I am an Agent for Xerox and have beat the stuffing out the Konica Minolta rep in town. If your Xerox rep can't get you a deal that is close in price on the 700 versus the 6501, then they are not being creative enough.

Of course if your preference is the 6501 then go with that, but cost should not be a factor between the two.

Doubtful - Xerox wants way too much money for the 700, especially since it won't even run 100# gloss cover. We did a demo and provided all the paper we stock before we bought our second Océ CS665 and the Xerox service manager refused to sign off on our materials. You will always beat the stuffing out of a KM guy because he's used to selling office crap - basically what your 700 is. Don't beat your chest too hard.

 

[Jtamoe46]

Ginfay,

Your Xerox rep should be able to get more creative and get you a price close to the KM6501. In addition, I can't speak for other vendors but Creo is throwing in a free version of Darwin which could be of value to you if you are going to dabble in variable data. If you think you need something more robust the 260, put that Xerox rep to work.

I am biased towards Xerox because I do sell the product. I have found that a lot of my peers do not know what they are doing when selling our color products. I am probably not going too far out on a limb with that statement.

 

[Mikee]

Hi, Sorry to but in!
I have noticed the Konica machines quoted in this thread but not sure what the UK equivelent Oce machine is?

Finding this thread Very interesting as our company are about to dip our toes into the Digital Press market after a few years of buying short run trade Digital at 0.40p per A3 (single sided) and selling it on (we are n the UK). BUT the short run stuff has increased to such an extent that we would be fools not to get our own piece of kit! All work we have bought in has been done on a Kodak Nexpress but have been shown the Oce cs655 and by Xerox we have been pitched the Docucolor 250 as its equivalent. To us they seem Very different machines. Are there any unbiased offerings that may help us decide. OR any other options. I have noticed the Konica machines quoted in this thread but not sure what the UK equivelent Oce machine is?
Cheers
Mikee