Matching monitor to printer??

[iggee002]

Hi,

I was trolling the forums, and I came across a discussion that implied that monitors can be matched to printers. I would like to know more about this, if it's possible.

I had posted in the adobe forum about how my artwork comes back the wrong color from the factory. If this is possible, this may solve my problem!

How can I calibrate my monitor color to match what will actually come out of the printer at the factory?

Please excuse my ignorance...I know very little about what happens once I submit a design for print.

Thanks,
Cherie

 

[mojoprime]

there are a number of factors that influence color management.

What type of monitor do you have? some monitor types (those with TN panels) are just not well suited to design work, since they don't show true 8-bit color. you can get a PVA or IPS monitor for better color reproduction. but you need to move on to the next step.

you need to get a color calibrator and at least calibrate your monitor. also, sometimes the printers offer color profiles for their presses. if you print to a single commercial printer often, it might be worth checking into.

in our case, we use a variety of vendors, so we generally turn color management off, though we calibrate our monitors to make sure we're as good as we can get. we also press check critical jobs, so that we're not surprised with what comes back from the printer. i would suggest that, at the very least, you start doing that immediately. and ask questions! ask the prepress guys at the printer you use, talk to their systems manager, talk to pressmen...just become a sponge and soak up everything they tell you.

 

[TerryWyse]

Hi,

I was trolling the forums, and I came across a discussion that implied that monitors can be matched to printers. I would like to know more about this, if it's possible.

I had posted in the adobe forum about how my artwork comes back the wrong color from the factory. If this is possible, this may solve my problem!

How can I calibrate my monitor color to match what will actually come out of the printer at the factory?

First off, you need to set your expectation.....can they be matched ABSOLUTELY? Of course not, you're dealing with emissive light (display) vs. reflected light (print).....so there's some very fundamental reasons why they can't be matched in any absolute, measurable way.

Having said that, ABSOLUTELY they can match! (i'm kidding)......but seriously, they can be matched in a relative sense but there's several things you need to be aware of and/or control.

* First off, you need a high quality display (I suggest an IPS panel....NEC SpectraView and EIZO ColorEdge displays are two good display vendors).

* You need a good colorimeter matched to the characteristics of the display...or better yet, put your money in a spectrophotomer like the X-Rite ColorMunki or EyeOne Pro. Spectros have the advantage of being able to be used with ANY display including the newer wide gamut displays....colorimeters, like I said, need to be matched to the display, especially in the case of wide gamut displays.

* You need good calibration software....I would suggest either ColorEyes Display Pro or basICColor Display 4.....and you need to know what calibration parameters (white point, luminance, etc.) will produce the best "soft-proof" color match.

* Viewing conditions are critical....you need a good "D50" viewing booth in order to compare the printed results to your display...I would suggest a dimmable personal viewing booth not next to, but in the general working area of your display.

* Lastly, you need to understand how to soft-proof correctly in your applications, presumably Adobe Creative Suite applications.


The one thing I'm not quite understanding is your use of the word "factory".....are you talking about having the correct color coming from your "factory" printer, like a desktop printer.....or are you speaking of the printing company that's doing your printing as the "factory"? Odd choice of words but I suppose a printing company is like a factory with printed sheets coming off the assembly line.
If it's the former, you would need to profile that printer to sort of "close the loop". If it's the latter, then you need to speak with the "factory" and find out what profile best represents their printing conditions....is it GRACoL Coated1, SWOP Coated3, Newsprint, or some custom profile that they can provide you with?

Just understand that having a quality monitor and calibrating/profiling it is only part of the equation....proper viewing conditions, being able to soft-proof in your applications and knowing what profile best represents the printing conditions of the final printed work are the other factors needed to "close the color management loop" so-to-speak.

It's a bit of a complex answer to a seemingly simple question but I hope this helps,

Terry

 

[graficworx]

A monitor can never truly match printed material as they use two different types of color representation. Monitors use the RGB color format that adds all the colors together to make white. Printers use CMYK, which adds ink to white paper to form colors. The conversion process will yield some changes. Even if your computer file is CMYK it is being displayed as RGB. There are color calibration tools that you can attach to your monitor that attempt to create the right monitor profiles, and they can come pretty close, but nothing will truly match the printed material. Also, as a monitor ages, the colors will change a bit.

 

[dleather]

Use SWOP as a starting point.

Use SWOP as a starting point.

Believe it or not, there is an industry standard for color. All calibrations for printers, monitors, digital devices, even the huge building-sized web-fed presses operate to meet specific commercial proofing standard. (There are many many deviations from standard, and numerous profiles specific to individual jobs and machines, but the "standard" is always a good place to start.

From the SWOP website, you can download color profiles to use as your working space in graphics programs, or as your output intent when you make a PDF. This will get you in the ball park at least, even if you aren't supplying contract proofs for the pressmen to match, or using full-spectrum lighting (the D50 mentioned above), or even calibrating your monitor everyday.

SWOP | IDEAlliance

Here is some more detailed info: Monitor Calibration - Calibrate Your Monitor - Color Management Methods for On-Screen Display

And finally, if you're not doing a ton of business as a designer and just want to see how the color you've chosen will turn out on press, invest in one of these Process Color swatch guides from Pantone.

Pantone - CMYK Coated & Uncoated

Get a CMYK color reading of a relatively solid color area (using the info tool, or color dropper tool in PhotoShop, for example). Then you can look at the Pantone swatch book for the CMYK breakdown of the color you THINK you're making. You'll see just how far off your monitor is. (Kind of a time consuming test, but if you're starting from nowhere, it may help you understand why the light/color you see from your monitor and the light/color you see from something on paper is so different.)

 

[iggee002]

Thanks everyone,

I really appreciate the advice!

Just to give a bit of background, we buy the products we sell from factories (most in China) and sell them to companys like Staples.

I was hired as a secretary (because I was a brand new graduate with a degree in IT/Visual Com and couldn't find a job in my field in this economy with no xp), but after they discovered my knowledge of PhotoShop and DreamWeaver, they decided to save money and have me start doing most of their artwork. I create packaging, maintain their Website, take crappy pictures and make them presentable for marketing, assemble them in presentations for possible buyers, design new products and build prototypes, and other such things.

My main monitor is an HP 2210m. I recently conviced them to buy me a decent computer, and bought the monitor with it (once again not knowing any better. I thought a monitor was a monitor). Going by what you are saying though, and what the Bg is here it's probably me, and not my monitor. My monitor is probably not "spot on" but it's not way off either, I don't think.

The colors are not coming back slightly different, they have completely different undertones to them. For example, our light blue packaging is coming back with this yellowish tint to it (not to mention faded and washed out)... These artwork files were viewed on multiple monitors, and also printed out here on our color laser printer. I'm being accused of changing the files before uploading them to the factory

Since I am NOT, I am looking for some insight as to what I am doing wrong here. Perhapse I am sending the .ai files in the wrong format?

 

[dleather]

Washed out?

Washed out?

First thing I would do is check that the files they're using are not RGB. If you're using illustrator, make sure your color swatches are CMYK (or spot colors if you're printing only one or two colors). Printing RGB images in a CMYK environment usually ends up with washed out, sometimes grainy appearance.

Also, the yellowish tint to the blue could (depending on the variation of the tint) be due to the kind of paper you're printing on. All papers have some degree of color, usually due to chemicals that make paper look bright, or to the amount of actual wood pulp in the paper. Often, low grade paper has a yellow tint, which will color your prints to a certain degree. If it's an uncoated paper, that could also account for the faded looking finish.

But if the color is way off, then you may have something completely different going on. You can send me one of your .ai files and I can check and see if there's anything obvious...though I'm not an Illustrator guru (fair warning).

 

[EZPower]

Make sure you are not using RGB color space when you are creating files. Always work in CMYK work space in Photoshop and Illustrator. You can't compare images that you are using for the web to a printed product. Also, do you not get a color proof before printing is done? If so this is the time to talk to your printer and find out what the color values are in your blue. Remember web publishing and print publishing are two different animals. Each has it's own rules to produce a usable product.

 

[iggee002]

"web publishing and print publishing are two different animals"

So I am learning, lol. I do work in CMYK at 300ppi or better when in PhotoSHop. When working in Illistrator, I just create a document "for print" in the new documents menu.

 

[Correct Color]

Here's the bottom line:

There's a lot to color management. A lot. And not only is there a lot to color management, but there is a lot of bad advice out there about color management. If you're serious--and it sounds like you are--you'd be very well off to consider calling in an expert to set up your workflow for you.

You've gotten some good advice here from some talented people--as well as some advice I would say could take you down a wrong path. But if you're a novice--and again it sounds like you are--I can't see you taking all the information you've gathered here and solving your problem. For instance, you've been told to use or not use "RGB" or "CMYK" in certain instances, but "RGB" and "CMYK" by themselves are meaningless terms. You have to know what RGB and what CMYK. And you have to be aware each time you make a colorspace transition. Odds are it's some sort of incorrect colorspace transition somewhere in your process that's causing your underlying issue. The problem is finding out when and where, and then creating a workflow that eliminates the problem.

There are people who do color management and color workflows for a living. I'm one of them. Terry Wyse is another.

Again, if you're truly serious, it's worth hiring an expert to come and set this up for you. After all, given what you're creating, and given the effort that goes into it, how long do you want to leave the outcome to chance?

Feel free to contact me if you'd like: 512 468 0010.


Mike Adams
Correct Color

 

[iggee002]

Hi Mike,

I appreciate the offer, and if I was running my own design firm I would definately consider it. However, I am already using my own version of Adobe CS4 to do my work, and am lucky I finally have a computer powerful enough to not make me want to murder people. You should have seen the thing they had me working on before..

As far as gleaning information from the discussions here, you are right, I won't learn everything. Nothing but experience can do that. However, I am learning quite a bit, whether it's solving my current problem or not. I have come far without formal education in print design or Illustrator. Mostly because I google whatever terms I don't recognize and read up on it. I then remember and apply the information.

I really appreciate everyone sharing their thoughts with me! It really does help me to become a better desiner.

 

[Correct Color]

I appreciate the offer, and if I was running my own design firm I would definately consider it. However, I am already using my own version of Adobe CS4 to do my work, and am lucky I finally have a computer powerful enough to not make me want to murder people...

Well, if I was you, I'd walk in to the boss and tell him/her exactly what I told you on this thread and the other one. And I'd stand behind it. Hell, call me and I'll do it.

You're spending money chasing this and I can tell you from the answers you've gotten on your two threads, you won't get there. And one day soon you'll wind up rejecting a big job and spending more than what you would have spent to set this up correctly in the beginning.

Y'know, one time, I thought I'd save myself three grand and be my own lawyer.

It only wound up costing me about a hundred times that. You might ask your boss if they do their own lawyering.


Mike

 

[Tarun Chopra]

Exact reproduction of colour is impossible, there are always tolerances for any process between device to device. If we compare digital proofing to press sheet they also don't match exactly there is always some difference, having said that there are monitors like Quato which after calibration validate the quality of calibration and also they have media wedge like tools which actually measures the colours from media wedge to show how close the monitor is to cmyk printing process.

There are lots of tools available you just have to decide which way to go, as these monitors can be expensive but they are worth the investment.

Regards