NCR Printing using offset printing machines

[Rockky Dev]

Can I use offset printing machines for printing on NCR papers? OR I should use digital printers?

 

[ajr]

Can I use offset printing machines for printing on NCR papers? OR I should use digital printers?

You can use both!

 

[ondemandbindery]

Digital Duplicators do an amazing job with NCR.....

JW

 

[Stephen Marsh]

Offset is traditionally how NCR is printed. Digital, would have to be qualified (what type of "digital", laser, inkjet) and the make and model of machine. I would wish to see digital NCR print samples with numbering and test them before I would go with digital.

Stephen Marsh

 

[ondemandbindery]

Offset is traditionally how NCR is printed. Digital, would have to be qualified (what type of "digital", laser, inkjet) and the make and model of machine. I would wish to see digital NCR print samples with numbering and test them before I would go with digital.

Stephen Marsh

Shops do it everyday. With the numbering Software available there is no need for Crash Numbering. I am starting to show a small shop how to capture more profits this way and use the Letterpress for something else.

JW

 

[Stephen Marsh]

JW, I am not saying that it can't be done or that it may not be an everyday process. Please qualify the digital method (inkjet, laser, other) - and the make and model of machine in question.

Is it using traditional offset NCR paper, or a special digital version? If a special version of NCR paper, what is the cost of the media so that one can make a qualified comparison using an MIS based on the run length and other production factors.

In my perhaps limited experience, offset is the method of choice for NCR work - if this is changing I would like to be up to date and better educated.

Can you post in more detail please?


Stephen Marsh

 

[ondemandbindery]

I did not intend for it to create an issue Lol Lets talk about the use of the NCR work for the end user. Give me an example of a given project. As for the machine, Xerox 242,700, and as for others I can't speak for them. If we are involving crash numbering or no additional processing other than padding, give me an old school Riso GR series digital duplicator. The production, and price per impression can't be matched from my research. Registration may come into question but I have yet to have a job rejected because of it. The ink drying is the big kicker on the Duplicators but in my experience it does best with NCR paper.

We were just talking about NCR paper today and for small press I have never seen anything perform like the old Heidelberg TOK. You had to know how to set the feeder up since there was no guide but once an operator figured it out that press could eat up some NCR work.

JW

 

[RGPW17100]

We have had problem on our copier with the back side of carbonless when you run it two sided. The toner rubs right off. This is the back of the last sheet of the set. Three part pink is the problem, 4 part goldenrod and 2 part the back side of canary

 

[ondemandbindery]

We were having a problem with the Riso marking from the feeder and we just started using 14" and cut off the marked end. That is why I asked for him to give me a job scenario. Every shop has their own fit and certain way to do things Lol.

JW

 

[jminrod]

We had this issue on our canon. The solution was to run the in reverse and face down.

We had this issue on our canon. The solution was to run the in reverse and face down.

We were having a problem with the Riso marking from the feeder and we just started using 14" and cut off the marked end. That is why I asked for him to give me a job scenario. Every shop has their own fit and certain way to do things Lol.

JW

We had this issue on our canon. The solution was to run the in reverse and face down.

 

[Sev]

Offset is traditionally how NCR is printed. Digital, would have to be qualified (what type of "digital", laser, inkjet) and the make and model of machine. I would wish to see digital NCR print samples with numbering and test them before I would go with digital.

Stephen Marsh

We print on NCR quite often on our Xerox 4110, both single sided and double sided, with no issues at all. The 4110 prints on NCR at high speeds, and then gets padded. About the only drawback is that we generaly need to keep the doors open, since NCR can have a rather strong odor while getting printed. Our digital presses are in the prepress department, and we usually keep the doors closed.

-Sev

 

[Stephen Marsh]

Thanks Sev, back when I worked for that shop we used to print NCR pads offset, although we had a Xerox Docucolor 3535 and a Xerox Docucolor 500 and two high speed mono Océ production copiers. I can't recall 100% why we did not use digital for short run work (I am thinking it was due to constant jams or debris in the machine). I don't think that we tried a special digital NCR from Xerox or other vendors, which may have been part of the issue with using the offset paper with digital.

Thank you one and all for your input, as I said before, I am hoping to be better educated from this topic thread, I don't have any axe to grind on this topic.


Stephen Marsh

 

[Stephen Marsh]

With the numbering Software available there is no need for Crash Numbering.
JW

JW, can you go into more detail on the numbering software and workflow?

Stephen Marsh

 

[Mike Micelotti]

Hi Stephen, you may want to check out my software at http://auto-number.com

Best regards,
Mike

 

[pmkprog]

You can do the auto numbering by using the variable data option in InDesign. It's not that hard and we have been able to use that effectively for the numbering. The only issue that we have found with the NCR paper is that sometimes running it through the copier/digital press you get some darkening around the edges of the colored paper. Other than that it has been good.

 

[ondemandbindery]

Axe to grind Lol. Glad you are getting some information that is useful. You have many options to Print on NCR. As for the numbering solution, that begins to get out of my scope but I will find out tomorrow for you. It is very simplistic and I do know that. It shows you that crash numbering is not your only option. The Printing of it also depends on your situation in production. Ideally to have the ability to print Digital or Offset gives you plenty of horsepower to process your work.

HTH,
JW

 

[Dottiek]

We are an educational agency with a small inplant. After decades of using an ABDick 980 for our NCR, we eliminated offset entirely when we found a source for digital NCR that was cheaper than what we were paying for regular NCR. The numbers just didn't justify keeping it even though we owned it.
Now we use Gladfelters Excel guaranteed for all machines in our Canon 1135. Flawless? No, we have intermittent feed problems with occassional lot numbers but it is definitely a paper issue. We seem to have a lot of heat rollers peeling that the dealer claims is due to NCR, but we don't run THAT much ( 2 skids/year, intermittently run). We have had the 1135 2 years after 20 years as a Xerox shop.
The hardest part was prepress and figuring out how to duplex with numbering sets electronically through the Micropress. I use a mail merge for the numbers. I now have a cheat sheet/reference book that is referred to religiously when setting up NCR jobs. Every setting everywhere has to be correct and the jobs sent through a stacker for good results.
Initial learning curve was steep.

 

[jokar]

We have been running NCR on our Ricoh C900 and 1107ex for about 3 years now. We are using Xero/Form or Superior NCR stock running single sided or duplexing. I recently purchased a small and inexpensive software program called Number Press which has saved us countless hours of off-line numbering. I have been in this business a long time and have never seen an easier way to run NCR forms.

 

[ondemandbindery]

They use Indesign. I have no doubt there are some really good Software programs. Like I said it depends on the setup of your shop. I could see scenarios where all options apply.

JW

 

[Fredpan123]

Can I use offset printing machines for printing on NCR papers? OR I should use digital printers?

we print NCR on our offset press or on our copiers: no problem. you can do the same.