New Komori Feeder Operator

R

Ryanmalott

Member
I'm a new Feeder operator on a 8 color Komori Lithrone 40 series litho press. We run yupo, and arjobex brand materials, its a really thin plastic for labels.

I've had in house training, but it still didn't seem enough. Now I'm on my own just me and the operator. I still have a crap load of kick offs! Id like to get some tips and what not so I can become a better feeder operator.

I keep getting told that if there coming down the feed table straight everything should be good. We run our material just about 1/8" below the feeder gate. Our sheets vary from size, from 40x28 down to 29x19. It seems like I have a better chance of having a good night when we run big sheets. its when we get to the smaller sheets I have lots of kick offs.

How Do I know how to adjust my pick up suckers, foot air, and side air properly.

The last problem I couldn't figure out was we would run about 2000 sheets then it would randomly kick a sheet sideways a bit, the operator side would be advanced. just enough to trip the press off. Ive been told to listen to it, it sounds like its feeding good, then that random sheet would kick.

Id like to know any type of information and or tips to make me better
 
First step is to check the Anti Static equipment on your press. I assume the Komori has some kind of Static elimination fitted. If not go old school with Metal Christmas tinsel.
To avoid static, maintain at least 42% relative humidity. Also check if there is ionizing
air units at the feeder and/or delivery.
 
are you moving your forwarding suckers and your drive wheels in when you go to a smaller sheet? Ive also found that when running any substrate with a high static charge a bit more feeder blast better separate the sheets. Are their other feeder operators in the shop that are successful at running these tough stocks? If so don't be ashamed to ask for tips from them!!!
 
Excuse me but my terminology isn't the best yet that or my shop may call it somethibg else, but when you refer to the forwarding suckers which ones are you referring to? The pick up suckers in the back or the ones that push the sheets forward.

I'm sure the drive wheels your referring to are the ones between the feeder and feeder table where the manual DSD is? We hardly ever move them for any job. I can try moving them sometime though.

The thing is no one seems to want to help out anyone else! Kind of feel like every man for themselves! I'm a new feeder operator so I have issues with a lot of the stocks. All I get told is things will get better with experience.
 
If you want help, you should respond to all questions and suggestions.
The humidity is controlled, good. But are there or not anti static devices on the press? Your lack of experience running plastic is not a good basis to say that static is not the issue.

For the sheets cocking on the ramp, check for anything on the ramp board that the trailing side could have bumped into. Are there enough hold down wheels on the sheets on the ramp?

Al
 
I've worked in this play for 6 years just finally moved up to the press. I use to run the sheeter which takes the rolls and makes them into sheets. There are static discharge bars on the feeders. The plant is climate controlled. When the rolls are sheeted they use static tensel, static bars, and water misters for the static issues. Yes sometimes I can feel a bit of static in the loads.

For the hold down wheels we have 2 right after the sheets go through the manual DSD, then 2 on the bar that moves halfway. Then on the bar that automatically adjusts we have we have 2 and also 2 of those brush type wheels.

How does everyone fine tune the brush wheels? I've seen just barely touches back edge of the sheet and have seen people move them up onto the sheets.

We use to have static sprays but now try will not allow us to use it.
 
"We use to have static sprays but now try will not allow us to use it."

Why not???

Did you have less problems when you did use them?

Al
 
Al Ferrari said:
"We use to have static sprays but now try will not allow us to use it."

Why not???

Did you have less problems when you did use them?

Al
Click to expand...

I believe I was told it was a waste of money due to all of the other items for static in place...

I do believe a lot of the issues I have is setup. Other feeder operators don't have the amount of issues. The thing is no one wants to help out each other with tricks and tips and suggestions.
 
'The thing is no one wants to help out each other with tricks and tips and suggestions'
I'm sorry to say but the current work environment that you are in may not be around for much longer. If someone thinks that keeping Knowledge to themselves is a healthy part of operating a company they are very much mistaken. Helping you become a better feeder can only strengthen your company. Your management needs a kick up the backside for tolerating this type of work attitude.
Sorry rant over
 
Last edited:
Cornishpastythighs said:
'The thing is no one wants to help out each other with tricks and tips and suggestions'
I'm sorry to say but the current work environment that you are in may not be around for much longer. If someone thinks that keeping Knowledge to themselves is a healthy part of operating a company they are very much mistaken. Helping you become a better feeder can only strengthen your company. Your management needs a kick up the backside for tolerating this type of work attitude.
Sorry rant over
Click to expand...

I couldn't agree more with what Cornish is saying about your work environment not helping. I wish I could offer some sound advice but I don't know the Komori feeders. Feeding plastics or other synthethic paper can be a real hassle. Maybe you can ask a feeder that you have a good rapport with to give you some pointers. Sometimes if you have the time and are able feed get blanks feeding first without trouble, you won't waste printed sheets. If you can use paper and get it feeding properly and the plastic will not, try to pinpoint what can possibly be causing the problem. Get another pair of eyes to work with you. Sometimes what is not obvious to you might be quickly obvious to someone else.
 
Stream Feeders.

Stream Feeders.

Hello fellow Lithographers,

What ever Litho Press, All modern stream-fed sheet feeders are > >


B.O.B.S. - Built Out Back Separation mechanism, be they Komori, Heidelberg, KBA

M.A.N or Ryobi etc

All based on the German Spiess feeder from the 1960s.


Regards, Alois
 
My experience is on a much smaller press but our SM52 I have seen the cocking of the sheet and it was not static it was curl. Does it more often happen with down curl? Ours was mainly down curl and the side that had the biggest ink lay. The ink build on one side of the sheet created such a bad down curl that the lead edge of the sheet would not make it to the delivery. Pile height on the feeder was critical but due to the curl adjustments needed to be made to the pile height as the pile got lower. In most cases the press would start in the max high position and as it got near the end of the load this adjustment would have to be lowered. Sorry if this does not apply to your particular press or application, but it sounded a lot like the feeding problems I was experiencing
 
Cornishpastythighs said:
'The thing is no one wants to help out each other with tricks and tips and suggestions'
I'm sorry to say but the current work environment that you are in may not be around for much longer. If someone thinks that keeping Knowledge to themselves is a healthy part of operating a company they are very much mistaken. Helping you become a better feeder can only strengthen your company. Your management needs a kick up the backside for tolerating this type of work attitude.
Sorry rant over
Click to expand...

I 100% agree with Cornishpastythighs about this but must add: Your pressman should be the first person to be helping training you on this. It's massively in his best interest to do so and it is his job to do so.

I am a Komori pressman (LS440P circa 2006) but I don't have any experience running plastic. When running fine paper the tool box you have to keep sheets in the stream straight include the forwarding suckers, air, and side air. One factor is the thickness of the substrate. We find that especially thin paper (.004") you want air and side air settings to be as low as possible and still be effective. Keeping the sheets straight tends to require the forwarding suckers to have no more that about 1/4'' up/down movement. If moving further than that you'll have problems. This is achieved by a combination of up/down adjustment of the suckers themselves and the middle side air setting. Another thing to look for always on these feeders is if the governor foot is stepping on the tail of the sheet being picked up by the pickup suckers. If it is you've got problems. Correcting this is a combination of moving the feeder head in/out and proper setting of the sheet separation fingers. Proper assembly of and setting of sheet separation fingers is key to getting this feeder to work well. It is difficult to say exactly what you should do with this without being able to see your setup. In general you want to assemble the separation fingers such that they are as long as possible so that you then have maximum flexibility in moving the feeder head in/out.

Running these feeders has a lot to do with feel, intuition, and experience. A good starting point is to make copies of the pages in the Operation manual that describe how things on the feeder should be set and set your feeder accordingly as a starting point. Also you should try to talk to a Komori press demonstrator.

You also asked about the brush wheels. Generally the are set when looking straight down such that the center of the axle is directly over the tail edge of the sheet. In some instances you may want them set such that the front of the axle is directly above the tail edge of the sheet. They should stop as the gripper edge of the sheet first touches the head-stops. Pressure settings depend on thickness of substrate. For thin paper you want them just barely touching with the feeder on and no paper going through. For thicker substrates more pressure may be required. Also be aware of feed table air, usually it runs in the 40-60% range depending on substrate thickness. The other wheel should be set just behind the tail edge of the sheet such that they aren't stopping when the sheet stops at head-stops. In other words they must be turning all the time not stopping. Don't know what to suggest for venturi air for plastic. We frequently run with venturi air off, especially on thin paper.

You didn't mention the sheet smoother at the head stops. Proper setting of this is another must for excellent feeder performance. There are more than one version of the sheet smoother so I can't suggest anything without knowing which one you have or if you're even having trouble in that area.

Another point is that while I have no experience running plastic I know that it inherently develops static electricity. All it takes is for one plastic sheet to move across another. Exactly like what happens in a stream feeder. The discontinuation of the static elimination spray is probably a horrendously bad idea.

Hope this helps. I would also be interested to see the pdf Alois Senefelder is trying to make available (unsuccessfully so far).

Full disclosure: I'm old enough to have run a press with the Speiss feeder Alois Senefelder refers to!
 
Bribe the other feeders with beer. If this doesn't work nothing will get them to open up. Good luck.
 
Komoris, in my experience, have some of the fussiest feeders in the business. Some things to try...make sure your suckers aren't worn. Many times fresh suckers have solved a problem I'm having.

Make sure the suckers are moving up & down smoothly & not sticking. Paper dust & spray powder can build up inside & cause them to bind. Just wipe them down with a dry rag or one with a little fast drying solvent like alcohol or mrc. Do not use any lube on them!

A little extra blast air will sometimes help get sheets over the hump.

I like to run my forwarding suckers as low as possible without dragging on the sheet on the way back. (Forwarding suckers are the ones that advance the sheet into the wheels)

Wedge up the front corners to help get the sheets over the hump, especially if the paper has a downward curl.

I like to set my brush wheels just off the back of the sheet so that they pause when the sheet goes into the headstops. Too far on the sheet can cause side guiding problems. Too far back mis registration and trip offs.

Make sure the electric eyes are clean and that the sheet hold downs aren't too tight. You shouldn't have to force a sheet into the infeed. You also want to make sure they're not too far up that will allow a sheet to hit the lip on the headstop. Sensitivity of the electric eyes is adjustable on the one I run. If theyre set too sensitive they can cause mystery trip offs. Next time your service guy is in ask him to check them. It only takes a few minutes. Don't try to do it yourself. That can be bad, m'kay.

That's all I can think of off the top of my head. It takes a good bit of experience to become a proficient feeder man. Its goid that you care enough to come here for help. If you have aspirations of becoming a pressman then master that first. If you can't feed paper none of the other stuff matters. Keeping the feeder going is the key to achieving the balance between quality and production.

Other than that pay attention, ask questions, don't run off when thw press stops. If yiur operator is doing something in the press you should be over his shoulder annoying the shit out of him with questions. Learn how to set rollers!

Good luck
 
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