non chemical fountain solution system (Ihara lb-801)

[Deleted member 16349]

I have just found out about a system that uses just plain tap water for fountain solution.

It uses UV light to treat the water. This supposedly changes the properties and makes it suitable for fountain solution using tap water and without any chemicals.

The system is distributed by Ihara and is called lb-801.

I am curious.

Has anyone used this system and does it work?

Apparently it started to be distributed in 2008 but this was the first time I had heard of it.

 

[Alois Senefelder]

Here we go again !

Here we go again !

Hello Erik,

When I was a Apprentice, we used -- Just H2O

The Witches Spell -- from

Macbeth: Double,double toil and trouble;
Fire burn and caldron bubble.
------
Fillet of fenny snake,
In the caldron boil and bake,
Eye of newt, and toe of frog,
Wool of bat, and tongue of dog,
Adder's fork, and blind-worms sting,
Lizard's leg and howlet's wing,
For a Charm of Powerful Trouble,
Like a hell-broth boil and bubble.


Regards, Alois

 

[Deleted member 16349]

Hello Erik,

When I was a Apprentice, we used -- Just H2O

The Witches Spell -- from

Macbeth: Double,double toil and trouble;
Fire burn and caldron bubble.
------
Fillet of fenny snake,
In the caldron boil and bake,
Eye of newt, and toe of frog,
Wool of bat, and tongue of dog,
Adder's fork, and blind-worms sting,
Lizard's leg and howlet's wing,
For a Charm of Powerful Trouble,
Like a hell-broth boil and bubble.


Regards, Alois

We use that fine old English Christmas recipe for the Holidays too. ;-)

Thanks for sharing.

 

[Cornishpastythighs]

I believe this was developed by a gentleman from Japan. It uses strong magnetism to reduce the surface tension of water, the UV light might be some form of water treatment for sterilization. Only one printer in the US using this, short runs I think and it is not completely chemical free.
This was introduced many years ago by clamping strong magnets around the fountain solution feed lines. it was all a bit hokey back then.

 

[Deleted member 16349]

I believe this was developed by a gentleman from Japan. It uses strong magnetism to reduce the surface tension of water, the UV light might be some form of water treatment for sterilization. Only one printer in the US using this, short runs I think and it is not completely chemical free.
This was introduced many years ago by clamping strong magnets around the fountain solution feed lines. it was all a bit hokey back then.

Yes, I do think it is a Japanese concept. I didn't see anything regarding the magnets but your explanation of the use of UV makes sense.

Maybe another "stone soup" concept. Works fine with nothing more than the basic concept but if you just add a bit of this and a bit of that, it works better.

 

[Lukew]

The two video's on youtube say zero chemicals, just water and there is no mention of magnets just UV to alter the molecular structure of the water so it acts the same as fountain solution/IPA

 

[Cornishpastythighs]

http://www.iharaus.com/pdf/LadyBirdMD801_Manual.pdf
Take a look at the manual for the unit and in the first diagram you will clearly see a piece of equipment labelled 'Magnetic unit #2' and the water hoses clearly pass through this unit. They dont mention anything about magnets in any promo but clearly they are there.

 

[rbailleu]

by alter the molecular structure of water I assume the mean they are are making H202 hydrogen peroxide and maybe a few others and as it breaks down 2H20 and O2 more water and oxygen to help drying.

 

[Alois Senefelder]

Wow

Wow

Well what next ! Fountain Solution equals Heavy Water next step - Nuclear Fission



Regards, Alois

 

[Green Printer]

This unit cost about $50,000.00 If you use over $25,000.00 of fountain solution per year it might be worth checking. The UV is just for sterilization. You would have a cheese factory in you fountains without the UV sterilization. Now you can't us this for UV printing or you will have dried particles of ink circulating in you system. I think that would cause few starches.
After a short while the UV sterilization for convention ink will be ineffective when the tubes become contaminated and diminish the effectiveness of the sterilization process. Also you will be bleaching out pigments that will still be circulating and the will cause scratching and transfer problem. To effectively filter out the pimentos you will need 5 micron or smaller filters which will glog in a mater of a few weeks. f you go up to 10 micron filters they will take a very long time to glog but they will filter only a very small portion of the bleached pigment in the system. This also depends on grounding, water hardness, distance the unit is from the press, kind of piping pvc or copper or stainless steel.
You can by a fish tank UV water purification light and the magnetic water treaters from many companies.
Fora total investment of less that $4,000.00 you can assemble your own unit.

 

[GreenGarcia]

We’ve seen a test run done on a 2006 MAN Roland with UV coater unit and none of what is suggested happened. Actually their prints were quite clean and sharp, and there was no loss in the effectiveness of the UV process. And all on a 1 micron filter….

There’s a unit working on a Harris M1000 press at the largest commercial printer in Brazil. They’ve been using it for almost a year now and just recently purchased another unit for their KBA press. I’d rethink putting a fish tank on these presses, since the system does more than just sterilize water and “demagnetize” it. It actually makes the water’s surface tension properties change in such a way to act exactly like fountain solution.

We’ve also seen the unit in the US and they use a small, insignificant amount of a non-toxic additive because the system actually opens their eyes to the condition of their press and they use it to open the print window some while they wait on repairs of their machine. But I assure you that put on a well maintained press, this unit will go all out 100% water. It’s only a matter of time – Brazil already tried it and they saw it!

This unit cost about $50,000.00 If you use over $25,000.00 of fountain solution per year it might be worth checking. The UV is just for sterilization. You would have a cheese factory in you fountains without the UV sterilization. Now you can't us this for UV printing or you will have dried particles of ink circulating in you system. I think that would cause few starches.
After a short while the UV sterilization for convention ink will be ineffective when the tubes become contaminated and diminish the effectiveness of the sterilization process. Also you will be bleaching out pigments that will still be circulating and the will cause scratching and transfer problem. To effectively filter out the pimentos you will need 5 micron or smaller filters which will glog in a mater of a few weeks. f you go up to 10 micron filters they will take a very long time to glog but they will filter only a very small portion of the bleached pigment in the system. This also depends on grounding, water hardness, distance the unit is from the press, kind of piping pvc or copper or stainless steel.
You can by a fish tank UV water purification light and the magnetic water treaters from many companies.
Fora total investment of less that $4,000.00 you can assemble your own unit.

 

[inkmaster2011]

Who is the printer in Brazil running it straight water only, day in and day out? I'm very familiar with the Lady Bird, and I know the printer who was running and testing it in Miami. It didn't work without Etch and additives and was run on extremely short run jobs, on a small press.. Who is the printer in the USA? It easy to lay claims on here without naming anyone using the technology. How come there is no press articles in the trade magazines?

 

[Dan Roll]

This approach is how fountain solution was developed in the first place. Just use water! Add a little gum to protect the plate. Add some biocide to prevent growth, a little acid to get quicker clean up, some humectent to prevent blanket piling, on and so on and so on.

Magnets were introduced by a sharp fellow in the states (copied in a more elegant manner by a clever Australian) and marketed furiously to printers using the same claims as this device. Introducing radio waves into the fountain solution was another approach, with a radio wave generator without a FCC warning panel on it. Before my papers were siezed by a former employer, I had an advertisement from the inside back cover of a car magazine claiming these same magnets (the American ones) when installed on one's gas line would increase your gas mileage. In Australia the same magnets sold to printers were marketed to boaters to prevent sludge building up in their diesel fuel. I have been in many plants where these devices (not the 'non chemical fountain solution system (Ihara lb-801)' the magnets and radio devices) had been installed and have never seen them used for more than a few weeks before being unplugged or no longer promoted.

Scenario:
Boss
'hey, how is that twenty-five thousand dollar gadget you talked me into buying working out?'

Underling
'what a total fraud, I wasted all the money you let me spend. I'm a moron!' or 'it works great!'
What would you say?


Rearranging the molecules of water isn't as easy as the uninitiated are led to believe, reducing the surface tension of water with light or energy might happen if you use a ring tensionsometer to measure it, but you will see no difference if you measure surface tension by any dynamic method. I would find someone with a bubble tensionsometer and have them evaluate before and after water samples before I would believe any claims about non-chemical surface tension reduction.

 

[Deleted member 16349]

Scenario:
Boss
'hey, how is that twenty-five thousand dollar gadget you talked me into buying working out?'

Underling
'what a total fraud, I wasted all the money you let me spend. I'm a moron!' or 'it works great!'
What would you say?

Love this. It would be very interesting to hear the actual truth about how the latest technologies work with respect to how they were promoted. As in your scenario, one never hears publicly about how things don't work so well but if one is lucky, some past or present employee will comment privately on how things didn't quite live up to the promise.