Pantone Color Libraries will be removed from future Adobe updates

abc

Well-known member
If I'm going digital and through a Fiery I always preserve the Pantone colors. Even when you calibrate multiple times a day, there can be machine issues that throw your curves off, like weak drums and developer. I want to have the ability to tweak brand colors to match.
How do you adjust them, in the DFE or within the PDF files themselves?
 

DYP

Well-known member
How do you adjust them, in the DFE or within the PDF files themselves?
That is something that should be done in the DFE which has the Pantone libraries and the ability to print a sheet of CMYK output values to make what ever adjustment that are needed.
 

gregbatch

Well-known member
Command WorkStation > Device Center > Resources > Spot Colors > Select Library > Select Color > Edit
(For the benefit of the surprising number of people who don't know this exists.)
 
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DYP

Well-known member
The latest version of CWS it is Command WorkStation > Device Center > Resources > Spot On. Spot On is a great improvement of the old Spot Color routine.
Also Spot colors in selected jobs are now listed in Job Summary for direct access and editing of that spot color/output profile numbers.
 

gregbatch

Well-known member
The latest version of CWS it is Command WorkStation > Device Center > Resources > Spot On. Spot On is a great improvement of the old Spot Color routine.
Also Spot colors in selected jobs are now listed in Job Summary for direct access and editing of that spot color/output profile numbers.
They have called it Spot On for as long as I can remember, but the menu option never said Spot On. ??? Glad to see that change. The job summary access makes better sense. Looking forward to that on our next machine, which we won't be getting until we have something to run through the machine. Right now what we have is $0 per month + clicks, so no worries if no paper.
 

abc

Well-known member
Thanks for clarifying. I'm still a bit mystified how this is impacted by the Pantone libraries in Adobe applications though? :)
 

gregbatch

Well-known member
Thanks for clarifying. I'm still a bit mystified how this is impacted by the Pantone libraries in Adobe applications though? :)
It was in response to a previous post, but does seem to have wandered off the path. Let me pull it back a bit. You can create a spot color in InDesign/Illustrator without any libraries using any color value you want. As long as the name is the correct format your DFE will see it and use its own library to render the color. You can create a spot using 100/0/100/0 and it will be green on screen, but if you name it PANTONE 293 C it will render 293 C on your DFE. If you are offset it will create a spot plate. I can get CMYK values from the bridge book, or LAB values from the DFE for my on screen color. So, I don't give much thought to Adobe color libraries. It's more of a convenience to select a color than anything. I'm building my own library of brand colors in Illustrator for convenience. I don't plan on paying them a penny.
 

abc

Well-known member
It was in response to a previous post, but does seem to have wandered off the path. Let me pull it back a bit. You can create a spot color in InDesign/Illustrator without any libraries using any color value you want. As long as the name is the correct format your DFE will see it and use its own library to render the color. You can create a spot using 100/0/100/0 and it will be green on screen, but if you name it PANTONE 293 C it will render 293 C on your DFE. If you are offset it will create a spot plate. I can get CMYK values from the bridge book, or LAB values from the DFE for my on screen color. So, I don't give much thought to Adobe color libraries. It's more of a convenience to select a color than anything. I'm building my own library of brand colors in Illustrator for convenience. I don't plan on paying them a penny.

Agreed, you just have to have the correct Patone naming convention. We covered that in the GWG webinar we did on the options available.
Might be of interest to some people.
 

bteifeld

Active member
This recent discussion seems to be missing the most important points:

1. If you have Pantone Color Manager and an X-rite color measurement device to license it, you still have access to L*a*b*-based values
for all Pantone Fan decks, at least for now. This could disappear at any time due to a Windows or Mac operating system update, or
some other change.

2. Device color space number specifications(CMYK/RGB) are an irresponsible way to implement named color systems like Pantone.

3. L*a*b* specifications of spot colors are the most effective, device independent way to implement named color systems like Pantone,
in the context of ICC color managed workflows for a specific print process/media configuration.

4. Using iterative and/or visual methods are not the most effective way to optimize print implementation of named color systems.

5. Colorlogic Colorant L, and/or Gretag-Macbeth Colorpicker have the best functionality to optimize named color system spot color
ink builds based on a good ICC profile for a print process/media coonfiguration.

6. Pantone Connect to the best of my knowdledge has NO way to export CGATS or CXF3 files
of L*a*b* specifications for full fan decks of Pantone colors.
 

abc

Well-known member
Yes, 'but we've always done it that way'! :)

For some reason people think the CMYK builds are some kind of bible, and complain when the Lab > CMYK conversions give different numbers.
 
Yes, 'but we've always done it that way'! :)

For some reason people think the CMYK builds are some kind of bible, and complain when the Lab > CMYK conversions give different numbers.

When it comes to reproducing certain colours on press; the CMYK builds are often much closer to the Pantone targeted colour when they’re customized in prepress, beforehand.
 

bteifeld

Active member
When it comes to reproducing certain colours on press; the CMYK builds are often much closer to the Pantone targeted colour when they’re customized in prepress, beforehand.
I'm admittedly more familiar with color management of inkjet than offset. If you wouldn't mind my asking- do you use ICC-based color management to make a profile of your press, your proofer, or both?
 

YourCastle

Well-known member
The DFE / RIPs have all the tools you need in their spot color libraries with the ability to adjust the output CMYK values.
I know how to adjust individual spots in the libraries.

I was asking Mud how he adjusts them. I'm confused by "CMYK builds are often much closer to the Pantone targeted colour when they’re customized in prepress". it sounded like the default settings are closer to pantone, but "customized" contradicts that.

I guess I'm just not sure what Mud is saying and was asking for clarification?
 

DYP

Well-known member
I know how to adjust individual spots in the libraries.

I was asking Mud how he adjusts them. I'm confused by "CMYK builds are often much closer to the Pantone targeted colour when they’re customized in prepress". it sounded like the default settings are closer to pantone, but "customized" contradicts that.

I guess I'm just not sure what Mud is saying and was asking for clarification?
I see what your asking and yes some people choose the monkey around CMYK values their input files which in my option is a recipe for disaster.
 

YourCastle

Well-known member
I see what your asking and yes some people choose the monkey around CMYK values their input files which in my option is a recipe for disaster.
I monkey around. i just wasn't sure what he was saying.

However, I don't edit the original library, I'll copy-paste to a new library that's specific to a client. We've had clients edit the printed colors eventho we all agreed that it matched the book.

One funny issue... if you edit a color in a sub-library and that library is higher on the list than another client's sub-library or the main pantone library, then the spot color will re-map to the top library. ... I'm sure y'all know this, so not new info.

However, someone monkeyed with a client's color, messed it up bad, and then i guess had to leave for some reason? They nuked all the colors, so the spot was printing white/paper.

I had a different team member print a different a different client's project that used the same PMS designation. Except the client's logo was printing white. My team member printed 1500 sheets not realizing and delivered to the client.

No one in the shop could figure it out and they eventually asked me. I tore the file apart on the front end, looked in the settings, pulled out hair... only to eventually dig into the spot libraries. I couldn't even process that would be the cause since no one would mess up the spot build, so it was the last place I looked.

So, yes, to your point, monkeying with spot values can be a disaster!

I asked the team if they could move client specific libraries under the pantone libraries when jobs were done... but they wouldn't. We (I) made it part of the (my) calibration protocol to make sure the actual pantone libraries were at the top of the list on a regular basis.

It's like cleaning the kitchen because team members can't be bothered to wipe up their coffee spill! Your mom doesn't work here. Clean up your own damn libraries. nope.

Okay, rambling over :)
 
I'm admittedly more familiar with color management of inkjet than offset. If you wouldn't mind my asking- do you use ICC-based color management to make a profile of your press, your proofer, or both?
G7 calibration and certification for press. The proofing coming out of prepress, I’m not exactly sure but I’m presuming it’s ICC based. I do know that with good G7 press calibration (continued with proper press maintenance), the proofs can sometimes end up taking a back seat to the actual printed product.

Certain CMYK built Pantone solid color representations don’t look very good, as they’re specified in customer files (also obvious in the Pantone Color Bridge book), and can sometimes be made to look better with a little bit of customizing done in prepress. My experience has been that it greatly depends on the tech.
 

gregbatch

Well-known member
If a client modifies the build of a brand PMS color I make it clear that I will run that color to the book. Then in the Fiery I use substitute color to capture their messed up CMYK values and output the values of my regular profile for that spot. I also require a previously printed sample to make sure the color they are expecting isn't totally off the book.
 

YourCastle

Well-known member
Certain CMYK built Pantone solid color representations don’t look very good...

this confuses me so very much. There are a few colors that I can adjust to get closer to the book spot and look way better than the book cmyk. I know the pantone people are smarter than me, so why are there a few cmyk builds that look awful?
 

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