Pantone to CMYK Color Bridge

[[email protected]]

I have recently ran into a problem where the cmyk breakdown displayed in InDesign4 was differnent than the Pantone color bridge book.

i.e.

Pantone 193 in InDesign4 was 0C/100M/66Y/13K
and
color bridge specifies 2C/100M/60Y/11K.

Has anyone else run into this? Is there a setting in InDesign4 that I am not using properly?

Thanks for the Help.

-Jeff

 

[pcmodem]

How old is your Color Bridge?

 

[[email protected]]

Brand new. Purchased about 2 months

 

[Lukas Engqvist]

If you open the swatches Pantone Bridge EC you will get the same values as the bridge. Doubt that there will be a big difference (why not print both mixes on the side of a job an measure…*see if you can spot the difference (though it really would depend on how acurate your under 5% dot is)

 

[jstanzione]

Pantone to CMYK Color Bridge

Dear Jeff:

This is in regard to Lukas Eugqvist's post dated 3 December. He has it exactly correct.

The CMYK values quoted in your post are taken from PANTONE COLOR BRIDGE COATED EURO. You will find comparable values using the PANTONE COLOR BRIDGE CMYK EC library within Adobe InDesign CS4 (Illustrator and Photoshop also have this library). This library should be used whenever the intention is to simulate PANTONE solid colors using the CMYK values published in PANTONE COLOR BRIDGE COATED EURO.

Best regards,

John Stanzione
Manager - Technical Support
Pantone, LLC
Wholly owned subsidiary of X-Rite, Inc.
myPANTONE - Help Center Support Home Page

 

[J]

To: John Stanzione

Could you explain this further? (The web link you provided says what to do but does not explain why)

Are you saying that the recipes for Europe are different than those for the US for the same color?

If so, how long have recipes been different?

Why are they different?

I thought that Pantone was optimizing its recipes for the press, if so, why would Pantone 193, as one example, use a recipe like 0C/100M/66Y/13K a 3/C recipe which is fairly easy to image an print, and then, for the same simulation specify 2C/100M/60Y/11K a 4/C recipe that is more difficult on press (4 variables) which includes a 2% tone which is not only more difficult to maintain in platemaking and on press but may be impossible to achieve for many printers?

Thank you, J

 

[pcmodem]

I am guessing, but I think it would have to do with the different pigments in the ink between US and Europe.

 

[J]

I am guessing, but I think it would have to do with the different pigments in the ink between US and Europe.

I believe that both target the same ISO CIEL*a*b* values, so it shouldn't have anything to do with pigments.

J

 

[jstanzione]

Pantone to CMYK Color Bridge

During the development of PANTONE COLOR BRIDGE COATED EURO, we took into account slight differences in density and dot gains for European process workflow, when compared to workflows used in North America. Because of these differences, the CMYK values in PANTONE COLOR BRIDGE COATED EURO are different than the corresponding values in the North American version. The values cited in the Guide are correct based on the press conditions which are outlined in the copy pages of the Guide.

Best regards,

John Stanzione
Manager - Technical Support
Pantone, LLC
Wholly owned subsidiary of X-Rite, Inc.
myPANTONE - Help Center Support Home Page

 

[disbellj]

In fact, what PANTONE has done is basically led people to believe that PANTONE color bridge US version is ISO-compliant (but they put that at the end "where applicable", which basically says it's not ISO-complaint, because either it is or it's not, there is not "where applicable").

I contacted PANTONE as soon as I heard about color bridge and I did some testing to show that their solid CMYK primary colors (first 4 color in the 7 represented by name G7) weren't even within ISO-compliance, so that means everything from there is not.

Since there is SUCH a small difference between GRACoL 7 (which was in beta, not named GARCoL7, but still PANTONE should have been aware of GRACoL plans to aim to ISO standards), that there should have been one version of PANTONE color bridge - and it would look like the Europe version.

The U.S. version of color bridge has needed to be updated since before it was first released, to conform to ISO standards, but instead PANTONE decided to mix GRACoL 6 and ISO, to come up with something that is not good IMHO, instead of doing it right the first time. GRACoL made it plain what they were doing, and PANTONE should have and could have gotten together with those in-the-know if PANTONE wasn't in-the-know (but they should have been if they weren't, I was, and I'm just one prepress person, not the company known for color), so that one version could have been made. Less than 2% difference between U.S. and Europe is not worth a whole other version, from the research and experience of a prepress technician who has built the calculators to know the differences.

Regards,

Don

 

[J]

During the development of PANTONE COLOR BRIDGE COATED EURO, we took into account slight differences in density and dot gains for European process workflow, when compared to workflows used in North America. Because of these differences, the CMYK values in PANTONE COLOR BRIDGE COATED EURO are different than the corresponding values in the North American version. The values cited in the Guide are correct based on the press conditions which are outlined in the copy pages of the Guide.

Best regards,

John Stanzione
Manager - Technical Support
Pantone, LLC
Wholly owned subsidiary of X-Rite, Inc.
myPANTONE - Help Center Support Home Page

Thank you, john

Did the difference between Euro and NA recipes occur with CS4 or was the difference there earlier? My understanding - up until your post, was that Pantone did not localize their CMYK recipes. (I ask because not every print specifier/designer/printer is using CS4)

Was Pantone's intent to achieve the same final presswork color appearance by using localized screen tint recipes? (I ask because, in this global industry, one of the goals for print specifier/designer/printers is to achieve color consistency across borders).

Thanks J

 

[Bradleyp]

Simply put. Pantone's 'color management' is crap. Moreover, their so called 'innovation' in printing 'new' series spot colors, isn't innovation at all. It's simply more inks = more downtime = more waste = more landfill. Way to go Pantone! You guys win the environmental (damage) gold star award yet again!