Press side measurement??

[Brer]

We are a smaller Sheetfed commercial print shop running process work and spot color work.
We have always used densitometry at press for color control. Now it is time to get a new device. What would be the advantage of going to a spectrophotometer? What press side measurements do you use on a daily basis that you can't get from a desitometer?
We have an Eye-One we use to read Spot on strips for verification and trouble shooting when needed.
Thanks

 

[gordo]

We are a smaller Sheetfed commercial print shop running process work and spot color work.
We have always used densitometry at press for color control. Now it is time to get a new device. What would be the advantage of going to a spectrophotometer? What press side measurements do you use on a daily basis that you can't get from a desitometer?
We have an Eye-One we use to read Spot on strips for verification and trouble shooting when needed.
Thanks

Densitometers don't measure color. They measure density. For example, a densitometer might give the same value for a dirty (contaminated) yellow as it does for a clean yellow. Same density - different color.

A spectrodensitometer will tell you what the actual color is.

If you are having trouble with color, e.g. aligning presswork to your proof, then a spectrodensitometer, such as your Eye-One is a tool that may help you to dial in your color. From the press operator's point of view there is likely no advantage over a densitometer.

best, gordo

 

[BeauchampT]

With all due respect to Gordo, if you have press operators that are really detail oriented when it comes to colour matching and are involved in colour management (I assume as a smaller shop, you tend to 'job share' to some degree), the benefits of a spectrodensitometer will really appeal to them.

It provides the simple process and print control of a denistometer, with the added benefits of accurate colour measurement whenever you need it. Depending on the software you use, this can really help a press operator work with management to target a print standard.

 

[jonprintz]

Agreed Beauchamp!.

Brer, if your shop ever gets into tighter color management your team will find the spectro extremely useful. Be aware that either option will need yearly calibrations at the manufacturer to maintain accuracy. The Eye-One is a great tool but we use 528's on the presses.

 

[gordo]

With all due respect to Gordo, if you have press operators that are really detail oriented when it comes to colour matching and are involved in colour management (I assume as a smaller shop, you tend to 'job share' to some degree), the benefits of a spectrodensitometer will really appeal to them.

It provides the simple process and print control of a denistometer, with the added benefits of accurate colour measurement whenever you need it. Depending on the software you use, this can really help a press operator work with management to target a print standard.

I'm not arguing against the value of a spectrophotometer. The OP already has one which they say they use to read Spot on strips for verification and trouble shooting when needed. I'm thinking that in the small shop as described there is no value to the cost of an extra spectro in the pressroom over a densitometer. If they can afford one at the press - then they should get one. But I've seen shops where a spectro was kept in a room separate from the pressroom. Press operators could simply go to a central location to get a spectro reading if needed - no need to have a dedicated one at the press itself.

best gordo

 

[Cornishpastythighs]

If you get something like a X-Rite 530 Spectro/Densitometer the operators will have both handy in one instrument. This will allow them to compare how close they are to target colours using Delta E and also with the downloaded PMS+ colours use the 'best match' features. They can then establish what the best density is to get the best colour match and then use the densitometer to control the process. They are not cheap but when it comes to graphic arts equipment what is?

 

[Deleted member 16349]

This will allow them to compare how close they are to target colours using Delta E and also with the downloaded PMS+ colours use the 'best match' features. They can then establish what the best density is to get the best colour match and then use the densitometer to control the process.

I am just curious.

Are operators measuring and trying to match colours within a screened image or are they just measuring and trying to match colours of spot colours and of patches?

If they are measuring and trying to match target colours within the image, where do they get those target values from? Is it from a proof or from data of the original image?

Thanks

 

[Cornishpastythighs]

We measure/match to solid patches on the colour bar and to solid areas on the printed image. Customer has usually indicated the target by signing an ink drawdown. Proofs are only used for any process work the job may contain. We have found that our proofer has some limitations in trying to reproduce certain PMS colours.

 

[Brer]

Thanks for all your input.
I think I get to go to the Color Management Conference in Phoenix this year. I may wait till after that so I can make a more educated purchase.
I was leaning more toward a Techkon than an X-Rite. Any thoughts on that?

 

[BeauchampT]

Techkon is very user friendly (at least I've found) and great for trending. But I've only used two X-rite products, so...

 

[lfelton]

What about about going for something like the X-rite easytrax spectral version with press-check software? If your press is relatively recent and is capable of it, you can also go closed loop. I realise it's a lot more money, but have you weighed up the potential ROI on that type of system? I think that Techkon also do a similar system. We had one or two surprising results when x-rite were working with us recently to help us to consistently "hit the numbers" for ISO12647, stuff that densitometry could never pick up on.

 

[THYum]

color management

color management

I've found that x-rite is easy to monitor the density and dot gain but the press side is monitor what standard you made for color control that emphasis in the gray balance. Is this right?