Printing on Plastic

[herbert]

Hi All

We currently have the need to match Plastic Printed credit cards (Printed at a specialist card printer, not by us.) on our Litho Press. This is the workflow, we print the folder that the credit cards are delivered in. The Problem is the card always looks really dull, when we come to print the folder (the cards are printed first), the customer expects us to match the cards, so they look good when all in the same pack. We have to retouch down the folder to match the cards, which actually means the printed folder looks reall dull (as the cards)

......and before you ask, the customer will not print the cards after folder,

These are my questions

Is it possible for the credit card printer to match to ISO12647 (LAB and dot gains) ?, this would then match to our current targets

what type of ink is used and will it acheive ISO lab's ?

Is there another standard for plastic printing ?

The cards must be laminated after printing, does this effect the colour ?

I dont really understand this type of printing, so a background of the process would be a big help.

 

[gordo]

We currently have the need to match Plastic Printed credit cards (Printed at a specialist card printer, not by us.) on our Litho Press.

One question...what halftone screening was used to print the credit cards? I ask because several printers who specialize in this type of work use 10 micron FM to print the cards which will have a somewhat larger gamut than regular halftone screening. Also, credit cards often make use of spot colors which are sometimes printed as line colors in which case the color is sometimes used as a bump color in any imagery on the card. Sometimes the spot color is simulated using a 6 or 7 process color hue set.

If at all possible, you might do well to speak with the specialist printer who may provide some help. In my experience, the printers who do this type of work tend to be somewhat secretive about their methods though.

best, gordon p

 

[Ozkan Hangisi]

Hello there, Qs/As

Is it possible for the credit card printer to match to ISO12647 (LAB and dot gains) ?, this would then match to our current targets :
No. You need a custom icc profile for color seperation and simulation.

what type of ink is used and will it acheive ISO lab's ?:
Inks produced acording to ISO 2846-1 would provide target lab values on solid areas but you use UV inks on plastic and I didn't see such an UV ink

Is there another standard for plastic printing ?
Not yet. You should define your own standards and optimize your printing

The cards must be laminated after printing, does this effect the colour ?
Yes but depending on lamination material and conditions effect can be more or less

I dont really understand this type of printing, so a background of the process would be a big help.[/QUOTE]
I suggest you to hire an consultant

Good luck

 

[Chaos]

Dot gains on plastic are a lot different as the ink sits on the substrate.

The inks, like Ozkan said, can be UV and with having to laminate leaves less pigment in the ink.
I ran a waterless UV on plastic that made the colors very dull.

Lamination can do crazy things to the process. Color change from film or adhesive. Color burn from the heat.

@Gordo. I've seen everything from a 10 micron FM to 133 lpi AM. The industry seems to be leaning toward 20 micron FM or 175-200 lpi AM.

 

[oldschool]

We print plastic cards here but not credit cards (extremely high security). A lot of credit card manufacturers will screen print and litho over the top. We flood a lot of Pearlescents and Golds down first.
The dot gain on plastic is much higher (we have had to run insane numbers from time to time). We do have our inks specially formulated with a drying agent.
The lamination process will change color dramatically (usually effecting the yellow and magenta) depending on the cycle (time and temp).
I cant imagine what we do would match your vendor but we do struggle with color. If you are stuck with what they produce, I would suggest asking for their color target they are printing to and trying match as you done in the past.... sorry.

 

[herbert]

Thanks for the replies

Thanks for the replies

Hi Again

Thanks for the info, im going to visit the plastic printer in 8 days, so I will go with a total open mind. By the sounds of it, we may have a uphill task.

Would you agree, because the cards are screen printed and possibly with no control / targets on colour, the cards can look dull etc. The litho printed folder looks really clean and bright, but the cards ive seen look really dull. The customer has actually rejected plastic card because they like the litho print.

I even thought of supplying a ISO approved epson, for the plastic printer to run too prior to the the production run.

Its very tricky, also the colour / LAB Values of substrate is very important and needs to match as close as possible to give us a fighting chance (is doesnt at the moment - yellow v blue (plastic)

How would you use a ICC Profile to help the issue ?

 

[Ozkan Hangisi]

How would you use a ICC Profile to help the issue ?

Hello again,

Your biggest deal is huge dot gains. So you can't go high densities with your current UV inks. First define densities on maximum contrast then decide about target dot gain curves. Paper type 1-2 curves might harm your halftone smoothness but you can try. Or try paper type 3 curves which allows more dot gains or create your own curves. After you adjust all, print icc test chart and measure it. I recommend measure before and after lamination and create both icc profiles for examinations. You can send your laminated icc profile to your customers for color seperation and simulation. Also put it in your proof workflow as target icc to see how your print will look. After all always stay in tolerence with your densities and dot gains.

 

[oxburger]

I can't understand the clients point of view. To intentionally print the folders to match the cards so the whole job looks bad is crazy. Personally, I'd want a kick-ass folder to minimize the bad look of the card. It would make better marketing sense to have as much of the job look good as possible. To each their own I suppose.

 

[oldschool]

We try to match printing on paper as best as possible. It is not going to happen. Its apples to oranges. We have had jobs that have taken a week to dry. We pulled short lifts, racked and placed fans in front on the racks.
Perhaps the printer does need to be better. We have been doing this for quite some time and we know what our limitations are. There are a lot of things we have learned along the way. Maybe they are out of their realm? Cant say for sure, but I can say we can not print as well as someone running C1S under ideal conditions.

 

[John W]

From a client's perspective, it makes good sense to have the folder match the cards. Both parties and the customer should sit down and discuss the issues. I have been involved with credit card printing in the past, using silk screen for metallics followed by litho followed by lamination. The litho inks were more or less standard mixes with specials made using print tests with lamination to achieve some corporate colors (eg: Visa Blue and Gold). Mentioned above that the heat and pressure and dwell time of the lamination and indeed the laminate itself will change some colors drastically and some not at all. As an example, we used PMS 185 to laminate and achieve 485 (burned 185 = 485). Once the card was produced, it was not so difficult to visually match the colors in straight litho by using the Color Bridge book, ie, forget color profiles and scientific measurement and go back to the 5000K booth! Once we did that, we had consistent success. Remember, this is specialty printing, even the litho portion.

 

[spider]

Hi have you look at flexi printing.
I have been a litho printing for over 30 years and now entering into flexi print and to my surprise. I have found that, this is very good for printing on plastic the quality is good and it dries extremely fast.

 

[Ultra007]

Makes sense to me to match the cards with litho and not the other way around. Since litho will have a MUCH broader range of colors and halftones possible, it will be much easier to match the "what you see is what you get" result of the plastic cards with litho afterwards. Otherwise you would print beautiful litho folders that the plastics printer would never have a chance of matching.
Plastics printing is an art with science thrown in there too. People who are good at it know the variables and have learned to control the process. Inks are important and most good plastics guys will use UV while there are a few that still utilize conventional. Wet trapping UV and post curing in the delivery extension will yield better results in registration than interdecking the press. The biggest variable a plastics printer HAS to understand and control is the dyne level of the stock. It is usually treated at the plastic supplier but will deplete over time. There are a few printers with corona units on the press to treat the stock at the time of printing.