Ricoh C900 replacing two DC250 ?

[Bjorgvin]

Hi everybody.

I run a small printshop, mainly printing short run books, manuals, etc. I am running for my production Docutech 6135 and 2 Dc250's. My volume is around 80.000 print pr. month in color and 1 million in BW. The color volume is growing, and I expect to double the volume in next 12 months.

Ricoh is offering me a C900, to replace my 250's. I do like my 250´s but what I like most about the C900 is the inline finishing options !

Since there is a very few machines already installed I am trying to locate anyone (not sponsored by Ricoh) to give me fair answers

So............

- Have anyone seen the C900 in real production ?
- Does anyone know anything about uptime ?
- How stapble is the color ?
- How does the C900 handle solid fills ?
- How is the overall quality compared to my 250´s ?

Look forward to hear from you.

B.

 

[Jtamoe46]

Why not look at the Xerox 700?

 

[byfthalone]

or what about the Konica Minolta bizhub PRO 6501? Or if you want to produce a wider color gamut the PRO C65hc is a knockout

 

[Bjorgvin]

The 700 and KM don't have the same on-line finishing that the C900 have.....

Like:
- Perfect binding,
- GBC streampunch ( Punching for wire binding)
- Professional booklet making,
and more, connected to the same engine

nice features !

B

 

[mikeatlbc]

Bjorgvin, I have found that it is faster and more cost effective to have most finishing off line. But, it is cool to have all the bells and flashly stuff. The Xerox 5000 or 7000 is a better comparison with the Ricoh 900.
And being that you have two Xerox 250's I'm sure if you mention Ricoh to your Xerox sales peron, it would be enough for them to jump to your tune.

 

[UberTech]

The 700 and KM don't have the same on-line finishing that the C900 have.....

Like:
- Perfect binding,
- GBC streampunch ( Punching for wire binding)
- Professional booklet making,
and more, connected to the same engine

nice features !

B

uhhhhhh yeah it does. The c6500 has a perfect binder, GBC streampunch is going to be availabe shortly and the highest capacity online booklet maker in the business. Not to mention a folding unit that has more folds than anyone else all of which can be added to one machine.

I wouldn't buy a machine purely for finishing options as no one is going to pay for crap prints just because it was easy for you to finish them.

 

[Bjorgvin]

Hmm..... crap prints ?

How would you compare the quality of the C900 to a C6500 or a X-700

I do agree, no one will buy a crap print. The samples Ricoh sales showed me was OK, but I still have to test my own files, or better see a machine in action and test my files there

B

 

[UberTech]

The samples I have seen from tradeshows smack of first gen woes, ie grainy, streaky, flat and generally not acceptable in 2009. 2007 maybe, 2009 no. We had a local client gifted c900 and they were returned and replaced with xerox. Caveat emptor.

But firmware versions come and go so you should take your files in and watch them being printed. If it seems like hard work for the rep to get it right then how are you? If they will only bring you prints of your files and not show you it printing then that would raise my suspicions somewhat.

 

[byfthalone]

yep, perfect bind up to 600 pages and the gbc soon

bizhub PRO C6501/C6501P Production Color Printers from Konica Minolta

And the 65hc is as close to press color gamut you can get in production print color unit

 

[Craig]

Uber,
Don't get too excited about the GBC StreamPunch. I have one on my Ricoh MP9000 and it is by far the weakest link in the chain. With over 3.6MM punches on it, I'd go offline with a punch if I do it again, especially if I had the volume I was putting on it. If you do have to work on it I'm sure you'll be repeating many of the 4 letter words my tech mumbles when he is working on it.

 

[UberTech]

Uber,
Don't get too excited about the GBC StreamPunch. I have one on my Ricoh MP9000 and it is by far the weakest link in the chain. With over 3.6MM punches on it, I'd go offline with a punch if I do it again, especially if I had the volume I was putting on it. If you do have to work on it I'm sure you'll be repeating many of the 4 letter words my tech mumbles when he is working on it.

I’m not, I doubt we will sell one! Something like this (and perfect binding) doubles print cost so the economics of it all doesn't weigh up. I think it is a case of, they have one so we better have one.

 

[GregNac19]

I’m not, I doubt we will sell one! Something like this (and perfect binding) doubles print cost so the economics of it all doesn't weigh up. I think it is a case of, they have one so we better have one.

Buying a machine for the finishing is like buying a car for it rims. I have seen the samples of the 900 and they were pitiful. It is bad when your own Ricoh logo looks grainiy and mottled.
What no one is really mentioning is the extreme loss in productivity for for adding perfect binding to the machine. that 90 ppm will go to about 10ppm. Why not go 45 ppm (duplexed) and then do it offline.
(500 books 48 pages per book) 500X48=24,000 pages
Offline (45ppm plus extra 30 minutes to perfect bind) =9.4 hours
Online (10ppm) = 40 hours! (20ppm)= 20 hours!

Simple math was used to do this. (24,000/45ppm)=(533 minutes+30 Minutes)/60= 9.4 hours

 

[[email protected]]

I agree, but...

I agree, but...

Buying a machine for the finishing is like buying a car for it rims. I have seen the samples of the 900 and they were pitiful. It is bad when your own Ricoh logo looks grainiy and mottled.
What no one is really mentioning is the extreme loss in productivity for for adding perfect binding to the machine. that 90 ppm will go to about 10ppm. Why not go 45 ppm (duplexed) and then do it offline.
(500 books 48 pages per book) 500X48=24,000 pages
Offline (45ppm plus extra 30 minutes to perfect bind) =9.4 hours
Online (10ppm) = 40 hours! (20ppm)= 20 hours!

Simple math was used to do this. (24,000/45ppm)=(533 minutes+30 Minutes)/60= 9.4 hours

Greg,

I've always felt that offline binding is more productive than inline (with the exception of simple stapling), esp if you're talking about any kind of volume. However we do have customers who are still enthusiastic about inline finishing, esp in cases where space is an issue, or where they don't have the man/women power to assign the duties to, or where their volume or frequency of use is minimal. My guess is that most of the placements of such add-ons are going to be in the in-plant environments.

How long ago did you see those C900 samples? With all of the hardware/software improvements made since the machine's launch the output is far superior now, comparable to anything in it's class.

 

[UberTech]

Greg,

I've always felt that offline binding is more productive than inline (with the exception of simple stapling), esp if you're talking about any kind of volume. However we do have customers who are still enthusiastic about inline finishing, esp in cases where space is an issue, or where they don't have the man/women power to assign the duties to, or where their volume or frequency of use is minimal. My guess is that most of the placements of such add-ons are going to be in the in-plant environments.

How long ago did you see those C900 samples? With all of the hardware/software improvements made since the machine's launch the output is far superior now, comparable to anything in it's class.

Any finishing that doubles the cost of a print is a no no in my area. Every production box has a booklet maker however.

The prints I saw were from printex about 2 months ago. Lots happened since then?

 

[[email protected]]

Shouldn't have happened

Shouldn't have happened

Any finishing that doubles the cost of a print is a no no in my area. Every production box has a booklet maker however.

The prints I saw were from printex about 2 months ago. Lots happened since then?

Geez, can't believe whoever was manning that booth would hand out crappy samples. That's just not typical of any of the Pro series machines.

 

[Bjorgvin]

Has anyone got quoted on the C900, Box price and running cost ?

Best regards,

B

 

[Craig]

Geez, can't believe whoever was manning that booth would hand out crappy samples. That's just not typical of any of the Pro series machines.

Most..... not all but most salespersons wouldn't know what to look for in a good print vs a bad print. All they see is lots of pretty color on what used to be a white sheet. After all many of the copier sales just got done selling Girl Scout cookies, used cars or insurance. That's why they have to bring in the "Sales Manager" whenever they are trying to close a deal.

 

[graymatter]

What's the difference between a copier salesperson...

What's the difference between a copier salesperson...

Most..... not all but most salespersons wouldn't know what to look for in a good print vs a bad print. All they see is lots of pretty color on what used to be a white sheet. After all many of the copier sales just got done selling Girl Scout cookies, used cars or insurance. That's why they have to bring in the "Sales Manager" whenever they are trying to close a deal.

...and a used car salesperson?

The car salesperson knows when they're lying!

 

[Batman]

The samples I have seen from tradeshows smack of first gen woes, ie grainy, streaky, flat and generally not acceptable in 2009. 2007 maybe, 2009 no. We had a local client gifted c900 and they were returned and replaced with xerox. Caveat emptor.

But firmware versions come and go so you should take your files in and watch them being printed. If it seems like hard work for the rep to get it right then how are you? If they will only bring you prints of your files and not show you it printing then that would raise my suspicions somewhat.

Ricoh has not "gifted" any C900's to clients. Uber can you verify you claim??? All placements to date are with clients that are very happy. A number have now been installed.

I work for Ricoh.

 

[byfthalone]

Ricoh has not "gifted" any C900's to clients. Uber can you verify you claim??? All placements to date are with clients that are very happy. A number have now been installed.

I work for Ricoh.

Ricoh donated a fully loaded Ricoh Aficio PRO C900S production color laser system to the Graphic Communications Department of California Polytechnic State University (Cal Poly).