So....Why should I Buy a KM8000 over a Xerox 1000? (or vice versa)

[X33]

"To cool the machine down" ha ha your funny.

I'm not trying to be funny. That's what I thought it was for; isn't it? Please correct me if I'm wrong.

So, what are those other "innovations"?

BTW, it is "you're funny" or "you are funny", not "your funny".

 

[maynardsayswhat]

It's not there to cool down anything, it's there to help control the relative humidity in the sheets.

 

[UberTech]

I'm not trying to be funny. That's what I thought it was for; isn't it? Please correct me if I'm wrong.

So, what are those other "innovations"?

BTW, it is "you're funny" or "you are funny", not "your funny".

Read for yourself BTW all KM production colour machines come standard with double feed detection and tray humidifier. Not innovations, just obvious.Although this is one xerox innovation I am quite envious of.

BTW, it is "you're funny" or "you are funny", not "your funny".

Thanks for admiting your anger.

 

[Craig]

tray humidifier. Not innovations, just obvious.

That is one that just defies logic. There is no way I can pull paper from a ream chuck it in the tray and BAM it's humidified before I can make the print. How long does one need to leave the paper in the tray in order to reach proper humidity levels? Lets say in my location.... maybe mid-January or February with a humidity level of 20% (figuring no humidification being added into the room), any idea?

 

[lfelton]

Craig,

I think Uber may have mis-typed. On a C8000 there can be tray DE-humidifiers and a RE-humidifer as an option. I think that it's easier to think of the tray option as a "tray heater" - as far as I know that's what it does, gently warms the paper. It's also a PITA if you leave the default settings on as the machine will wait until the right conditions are reached (could be humidity, but I suspect it's just temperature) until letting you print from that tray. Which can be a LONG time. I suspect you're thinking "what a useless option" right now, but that would be wrong, it's actually very usefull. For some reason, paper at the correct temperature will feed much better, less misfeeds and jams - ESPECIALLY on coated litho stock (that stuff that Xerox doesn't like you using ). On the KM's you have two really big high cap trays and we often have one tray with paper "warming" while the machine is pulling from a "warm" tray.

The RE-humidifier is a different kettle of fish and I haven't got one. The aim is to take the ripple out of sheets (not straighten them) if I understand correctly. If you don't understand the difference, curl makes the sheets like a banana and the KMs are really good at straightening that out. Ripple is much smaller and is through the whole sheet - sometimes you can't even really see it. How much ripple you get on current gen KMs is down to the wear on certain internal components, i.e. it gets much worse towards rebuild time. The RE-humidifier is, so I am told, intended to fix this. And don't think Xerox doesn't have this issue, you get almost exactly the same ripple on current generation Xerox machines.

 

[Josh]

I honestly really want to like the new KM machine.

It looks like it has some great features and would think it would be at a sensible price!

However:

After reading all the posts on here about the previous KM models in production environments I just don't know if I could trust it... our work is standard digital, quick turnaround (I want it tomorrow!!) with high expectations on quality (I want it to look like litho!). We need to know we have the ability to produce 10k SRA3 impressions in a day without the machine falling apart... yes I appreciate that there will be problems, but when they occur we need to know that either we can maintain the machine or we can have an engineer on site (and able to fix it!) within a couple of hours.

The posts on here about previous KM machines just don't seem to reflect this.

 

[lfelton]

I honestly really want to like the new KM machine.

It looks like it has some great features and would think it would be at a sensible price!

However:

After reading all the posts on here about the previous KM models in production environments I just don't know if I could trust it... our work is standard digital, quick turnaround (I want it tomorrow!!) with high expectations on quality (I want it to look like litho!). We need to know we have the ability to produce 10k SRA3 impressions in a day without the machine falling apart... yes I appreciate that there will be problems, but when they occur we need to know that either we can maintain the machine or we can have an engineer on site (and able to fix it!) within a couple of hours.

The posts on here about previous KM machines just don't seem to reflect this.

Forums are great for asking questions, less good for asking about peoples experiences. Lots of trolls, lots of newbies. Pick up the phone and speak to local COMMERCIAL PRINTERS who use the machines you are interested in, then make your mind up. If the manufacturer can't give you plenty of reference sites, well that tells a story in itself.

We've put lots of millions of clicks on our 6501s and you don't hear me complaining? (Well, OK, a bit).

Kit is just there to make you money, don't get hung up on the badge, all of them are unimpressive looking little grey and beige boxes. I just did a factory tour and neither guest was in the slightest bit interested in the glorified photocopiers (sorry KM & Xerox), but putting ear protectors on and watching a "real" press thundering along at 16K, THAT impressed them

 

[UberTech]

That is one that just defies logic. There is no way I can pull paper from a ream chuck it in the tray and BAM it's humidified before I can make the print. How long does one need to leave the paper in the tray in order to reach proper humidity levels? Lets say in my location.... maybe mid-January or February with a humidity level of 20% (figuring no humidification being added into the room), any idea?

Well if it was that humidty it would take no time at all as it would not turn on. I don't have the specs at hand but it will only work at certain humiditys. If you are in a damp cold enviroment you could put your cold stock in the machine the night before, or 30min before (you have 5 trays to chose from so if one is heating the paper who cares) and you would have reduced curl.