Splody dots

[curiosity]

Recently switched sources for our 100# gloss text.
The new paper does not print well as well as the previous paper. We get what I call "Splody-dots".
Unfortunately, it took awhile before we noticed this when we printed some very light screens and was extremely difficult to control the results. We ultimately decided to sharpen the curves in the hi-lites to get the results for which we were calibrated.
See attached jpegs.
The first image is TopKote and is the new paper. The 2nd image is Endurance and is the previous stock, of which we still have a limited number of sheets.
We printed on these sequentially (i.e. every other sheet).
Neither looks great (contaminated solution at this point?) but you can see an immediate improvement on the Endurance.
We also run other stocks that currently look ok.
Monthly we do calcium rinses and Febo on the rollers.
This doesn't help with the new paper, but cleans up the other stocks a bit.
My take:
The TopKote has excessive calcium or whatever makes it more alkaline than the Endurance. (I have not tested the pH, however, just a guess.)
Any ideas of how to make this work?
New fountain solution? Anything?
We are currently committed to approximately 3-6 months of the paper stock.

 

[Magnus59]

What press is this printing on?

 

[curiosity]

Komori LS 640

 

[gordo]

Does this happen with the other inks? Can you post pics of the K and C dots?

 

[curiosity]

Yes. Same for all colors. Take my word for it?
Our current approach is to test a less strongly pigmented ink. This will not happen until after next week. I think it will be better, but I also think it will be more or less, a "band-aid". And if it helps, we would have to recalibrate and all that entails.
Another approach is to test a different calcium rinse. Perhaps it will be stronger/better than what we currently use. Or maybe we're just not rinsing it enough with the product we already have, which is more than likely.

 

[Cornishpastythighs]

You might need to try another type of Blanket

 

[curiosity]

what's the logic behind that?

 

[realaqu]

Recently switched sources for our 100# gloss text.
The new paper does not print well as well as the previous paper. We get what I call "Splody-dots".
Unfortunately, it took awhile before we noticed this when we printed some very light screens and was extremely difficult to control the results. We ultimately decided to sharpen the curves in the hi-lites to get the results for which we were calibrated.
See attached jpegs.
The first image is TopKote and is the new paper. The 2nd image is Endurance and is the previous stock, of which we still have a limited number of sheets.
We printed on these sequentially (i.e. every other sheet).
Neither looks great (contaminated solution at this point?) but you can see an immediate improvement on the Endurance.
We also run other stocks that currently look ok.
Monthly we do calcium rinses and Febo on the rollers.
This doesn't help with the new paper, but cleans up the other stocks a bit.
My take:
The TopKote has excessive calcium or whatever makes it more alkaline than the Endurance. (I have not tested the pH, however, just a guess.)
Any ideas of how to make this work?
New fountain solution? Anything?
We are currently committed to approximately 3-6 months of the paper stock.
View attachment 290873View attachment 290874

Try to reduce water a little bit to see if it get any improvement, looks like paper absorb too much water compared to previous stock, in that case, maybe need new ink

 

[Cornishpastythighs]

what's the logic behind that?

what have you tried so far, maybe a softer/harder blanket might transfer a better dot it is after all where the rubber meets the road

 

[Alois Senefelder]

Hello curiosity,

Answer - You are printing with "Too much water"

We need to see the jpg of the - same area of the Plate !!
Also, check the Blankets that they are not "Glazed"


Regards, Alois

 

[curiosity]

Cornish-
We're going on the theory that our ink is emulsifying more with this paper than the rest. Or that this paper causes a similar result as emulsified ink. Like maybe the calcium is super high in this stock??

 

[Alois Senefelder]

curiosity,

Your latest conclusion ----- Nonsense!

Regards, Alois

 

[curiosity]

Alois,
Ok then. Too much water. Glazed blankets. Will follow up with findings.

 

[curiosity]

Quick update:
Blankets look good. So we turned down water to point of scumming. Splody dots still there (although they looked slightly better than with normal amounts of water).
Another theory (Alois, please do not read as a conclusion) is that our rollers have excess chemistry from clean-ups (and what-not) in them. I know, sounds weird*. Anyway, tomorrow we will deep clean a unit best we can and see what happens. We've also ordered a new cleaning product that should arrive next week. We'll test that too.

* Another press we have is not having same issues with this new paper. This other press has transfer cylinders that tend to pick the dots a bit, so it's not apples to apples. However, dots on other press look pretty good.

 

[curiosity]

Another update:
Also tried out a thinner, less pigmented ink, which also improved the condition, but did not eliminate it.

 

[Alois Senefelder]

Hello, curiosity,

Washing Roller Train Technique - Use a high quality "Miscible Roller/Blanket Wash" -- important! for the final

rinse - USE just "Hand Warm Water" !!!!!

Let use see a pic. of the same area on the Plate, this is the second time I've asked you!

also, show pics of any Control Strips or Star Targets printed on these 2 papers.

Hopefully, you do use Contol Strips - if not - WHY?

You need to remember that the manufacturer of these papers make "Thousands of Tons" so why is

it just you that have a problem! - Answer you must be doing something wrong!

Also what Plates are you using?

Regards, Alois

 

[curiosity]

Thanks Alois,
But can you stop yelling?
What is your suggestion for a good wash? That said, we are using Boettcher Calcium Fix and Febo.
Press guys like to use hotter than warm water, but not too hot since that's almost impossible around here. Can you enlighten me as to why not use hot?
My tool for capturing is unavailable today, so pics will have to wait.
We use a control strip. We do not incorporate star targets.
I acknowledge a problem; especially since one press does not show same signs.
We are using Trillian SP plates.

 

[CSF]

Curiosity,
You'll be fine. Wait until The Slayer arrives. After using it, the wash will do its job much better. No matter what wash you use now, it will not get the calcium out, because calcium is not water or solvent soluble, so it really can't get much else out. Trapped in your rollers right now is calcium, gum, ink, other chemicals, paper and more. Trust me, next week if you do as we say we will start seeing a big difference. As countless number users can attest, once you use the product you will be blown away by what your wash can do. Your tray will look like the one in the photo because the wash can finally get to the muck.
40" Heidelberg in Ontario. 2 Slayer treatments. Press operator said I can share it, so I will.
"I will add, that after a X2 Slayer clean and yes, a thorough wash up, my waters are holding 20 points lower than yesterday. Feel free to share this."

20 points lower ! On a 40" Heidelberg. That's less water for sure.
Agreed on the "hand warm water" final rinse

 

[CSF]

Thanks Alois,
But can you stop yelling?
What is your suggestion for a good wash? That said, we are using Boettcher Calcium Fix and Febo.
Press guys like to use hotter than warm water, but not too hot since that's almost impossible around here. Can you enlighten me as to why not use hot?
My tool for capturing is unavailable today, so pics will have to wait.
We use a control strip. We do not incorporate star targets.
I acknowledge a problem; especially since one press does not show same signs.
We are using Trillian SP plates.

The Febo and Calcium Fix are not effective enough, Curiosity. Trust me. No wash is going to do what it is capable until after The Slayer.
Most of the people on here are not even aware of the product so they don't get how awesome it is. You will soon know.

 

[Cornishpastythighs]

Most of the people on here are not even aware of the product so they don't get how awesome it is. You will soon know.

CSF are you an agent/seller of this product you are talking about