Splody dots

[CSF]

Yes, I am. I am the co-creator of it. I sell it to distributors. On this forum I only speak of it when people seek a solution. It solves problems for offset printers and that's what this forum is for, I believe. All printers, of course, but I am offset focused.

 

[Cornishpastythighs]

ok thanks, I see you have said Febo and Calcium Fix are not effective enough, could you supply us the data that you used to make this statement and if you would like to PM me the name of the printer in Ontario with the 40" Heidelberg you quoted I would like to get in touch with them to research your product further

 

[CSF]

ok thanks, I see you have said Febo and Calcium Fix are not effective enough, could you supply us the data that you used to make this statement and if you would like to PM me the name of the printer in Ontario with the 40" Heidelberg you quoted I would like to get in touch with them to research your product further

Data ? None to offer except real results, on the spot measurements, comments, testimonials, feedback. etc. Have been promised data, feedback, etc., from shops and corporations that I have given product to, demoed for, advised, and instructed. Very little has materialized. I crave the data and welcome head to head with the competition, but they know they have zero chance of out performing our product. Done as we say ,and how we say; not your way, ours, shops wilI print better. Immediately. You're in this game, so you know darn well getting solid feedback data on a pressroom consumable is difficult, especially a roller cleaner. Getting info from the dealers is like pulling teeth. Your inference that I am exaggerating my claims is rather insulting. The other products are not without some merit, I distribute most of them. Up until about 3 years ago all those products were considered benchmarks. But I like to say, "the guy who plays guitar at the local pub is really good, but he's not Ritchie Blackmore". This product is truly a game changer. Safe as hell. No VOC's. 100% fully biodegradable in about a week . Odorless. Non combustible or flammable. HMIS of triple zero . AMAZING.
Lots of info on LinkedIn and at the website. www.calciumslayer.com Calcium Slayer & Flush
Look it up.
Yes, I will PM you with the info on the shop in Ontario. Treat this professionally and exercise proper discretion in regard to shop privacy.

 

[CSF]

Has the OP tried segregating the Magenta, and/or other printing units, to see if there’s a difference in the printed results?

On roller maintenance; I think that Bottchër Febo Clean has been the gold standard for cleaning and conditioning rollers, for many, many years. There are other paste like cleaning products that are made as well but in the end their goal is to simply try and replicate Febo’s effects on rollers. Calcium Fix is also very effective and when used in combination with Febo, in a regular roller washing routine (and that means more than once a month), it works wonders. There are a few other steps or routines that can help as well but the whole idea is to stay ahead of any potential glazing or hardening of rollers (which can then cause stripping), rather than trying to make the rollers better once it has already happened. Silky smooth, velvety rollers from installation to replacement.

This doesn’t discount potential effects that other products may or may not have on rollers, it just states that the aforementioned ones really do work. It’s not just my opinion, either, as there are plenty of printers around the world who are very well aware of it.

*Apologies if this sounds like an advertisement, as it’s really not. It’s more like a testimony to the products mentioned as I’ve seen the effects they can bring when used regularly, and correctly.

I appreciate and fully respect your thoughts on the fine Bottcher products. Up until about four years ago I would concur with your endorsement. I feel Calcium Slayer & Flush is the finest roller cleaner/deglazer/decalcifier/ roller conditioner/ roller wash that has ever been. I also like Guinness, Deep Purple and the Chicago Bears. You may have different preferences. But I have drank other beers, listened to other bands and wished I liked other football teams , but until you try something new.........Sometimes, something better may be out there. And sometimes ,you are pleased with what you already have. If something works for you or your shop, that's all that matters. I sincerely believe that. If not, try the new kid on the block.

 

[Cornishpastythighs]

Your inference that I am exaggerating my claims is rather insulting.

Oh dear you have to indicate to me how I insulted you please.

Its just when someone uses the the old standby words 'game changer' and puts their product at a higher level than a competitor on these forums I feel we need to see actual proof, been in the trade too many years just to take someones word sorry

 

[CSF]

Your inference that I am exaggerating my claims is rather insulting.

Oh dear you have to indicate to me how I insulted you please.

Its just when someone uses the the old standby words 'game changer' and puts their product at a higher level than a competitor on these forums I feel we need to see actual proof, been in the trade too many years just to take someones word sorry

I'm insulted when I'm doubted. I also understand the skepticism. I do hope to earn your respect for our product.

I want you to do research. I want you to learn about it. Feel free to ask questions. Please, start dialogue if the goal really is to help printers. Remember, we also learn when we get feedback, be it positive or negative. Cornishpastythighs, I do hope to hear from you again down the road. Again, if i may be of any assistance to you, just ask. Thanks.

 

[Alois Senefelder]

Pressroom Chemistry.

My choice is products from Varn.

Back to the Topic.

Most all Coated Papers use PCC (Precipitated Calcium Carbonate) Coatings, so it remains
a Pressroom problem to minimise the impact this coating plays during the process putting
Ink onto Paper. The main control is F.S. Concentrate choice, which needs to accommodate
Alkaline Paper, also using Reverse Osmosis Water Treatment.

Running IPA free, the role of F.S. Viscosity is important and pH.

Regards, Alois

 

[curiosity]

Update:
Press unit was thoroughly cleaned using Calcium Fix (3 applications, actually) and Febo.
Tests were slightly better.
We then reduced water and again, slightly better.
We then tried a new cleaning product, Calcium Slayer & Flush*.
Tests were noticeably better still, but not yet perfect. However, good enough to proceed with production.
The difference is almost night and day.
Re-evaluated same stock on other press and we are seeing similar effect, unfortunately, that we had previously dismissed as transfer roller effect.
We're definitely leaning toward the paper as the culprit at this point.
We have ordered some new pH pens/pencils to test the surface. I'm anticipating it will show this paper as unusually higher alkaline than our other papers (again, Alois, not a conclusion; just a theory).

*we did two cleanings of the Calcium Slayer & Flush. the first showed horrible yogurt-like crap and obvious ink coming out of the rollers. the second cleaning showed very minimal gunk and/or discoloration. the pressmen really liked the product. they commented that the rollers looked and felt like new. we'll be ordering more.

 

[CSF]

Update:
Press unit was thoroughly cleaned using Calcium Fix (3 applications, actually) and Febo.
Tests were slightly better.
We then reduced water and again, slightly better.
We then tried a new cleaning product, Calcium Slayer & Flush*.
Tests were noticeably better still, but not yet perfect. However, good enough to proceed with production.
The difference is almost night and day.
Re-evaluated same stock on other press and we are seeing similar effect, unfortunately, that we had previously dismissed as transfer roller effect.
We're definitely leaning toward the paper as the culprit at this point.
We have ordered some new pH pens/pencils to test the surface. I'm anticipating it will show this paper as unusually higher alkaline than our other papers (again, Alois, not a conclusion; just a theory).

*we did two cleanings of the Calcium Slayer & Flush. the first showed horrible yogurt-like crap and obvious ink coming out of the rollers. the second cleaning showed very minimal gunk and/or discoloration. the pressmen really liked the product. they commented that the rollers looked and felt like new. we'll be ordering more.

Curiosity,
Thanks for the follow up. Glad it helped. Regular use will start offering more control of the press. We appreciate the opportunity you allowed us. Any questions, just ask

 

[curiosity]

Update (about the Calcium Slayer & Flush):
The attached pic shows the crud after one application. We did it a second time and hardly anything came off the rollers.
But it's important to note that prior to this, we performed 3 cleanings with another product.

 

[curiosity]

UPDATE:
Acquired a pH pen that shows approximate pH.
After several attempts to create a clean example, this is the best I got. See attached.

question: would you think this difference in pH necessitates a different FS for each paper?

(what's not shown is our previous paper, which had a very similar pH to this new paper; keep in mind, the previous paper did not produce "splody dots")

 

[Alois Senefelder]

Welcome back - curiosity,

Are you using TopKote manufactured by OJI Paper of Japan?
if so what GSM?

What makes you think that this paper is causing you problems?

Using the Hydrion Colour Chart Display - I read pH 6 which is Neutral.

Regards, Alois

 

[curiosity]

Yes, we are using TopKote, 100lb gloss text, 197M
I think it's the paper because our previous paper (Endurance 100lb), of which we have a small amount remaining, when tailed into any set running TopKote, does not produce "splody dots".
I read the pH closer to 8 (sample on the left).

 

[Alois Senefelder]

Hello, curiosity,

I strongly suggest you re-test and try to show an image, not a "Splody Dot".

Have seen your Paper Salesman about this problem? OJI Paper are a top-class manufacturer of Paper in Japan.

Your reading is in the Alkaline pH area. Your next task is - show a picture of the Plate Image Area of the printed image.

Regards, Alois

 

[curiosity]

Can you elaborate on what you are looking for?

 

[Alois Senefelder]

curiosity, OK.

1) At the start of your post, you showed a picture of your so-called "Splody Dots" on paper. NOW show an image of the same area on the plate.

2) When you re-test pH, write a capital letter and a line, reasonable size.

Regards, Alois
.

 

[curiosity]

UPDATE:
Last time I posted, things were much better, but not perfect. However, very sellable.
This week it reared its ugly head again. Days in one of our pressmen suggested that the water form roller was not set correctly. Turned out it was rotating 12% slower. (I'm paraphrasing here) Voila, no more splody dots!

I'm a bit in disbelief but I'm trusting what I see.

 

[CSF]

UPDATE:
Last time I posted, things were much better, but not perfect. However, very sellable.
This week it reared its ugly head again. Days in one of our pressmen suggested that the water form roller was not set correctly. Turned out it was rotating 12% slower. (I'm paraphrasing here) Voila, no more splody dots!

I'm a bit in disbelief but I'm trusting what I see.

Fingers crossed !

 

[Cornishpastythighs]

Some Komoris have whats called 'Delta Effect' dampening, This has the effect of reducing hickeys on the plate by gearing the forme dampener roller to a slightly slower speed than the plate cylinder. Is this why you are seeing a speed difference in the roller, Just a thought

 

[Alois Senefelder]

Hello Cornish and Curiosity

Correction-

Komori Presses are not fitted with a Delta Drive which is a patented design -

and only a Retro-fitted Dampening System.

Regards, Alois