Static build up within machine causing registration movement

[pippip]

Hi,

Have a Versant 80. Running into a problem with 130gsm gloss. It seems the machine is building up static and causing the backup to swing. It builds up gradually so first 100 / 200 sheets would be perfect and then you'd see the back going 1mm out and slowly getting worse and worse until the image is actually off the page so about 15mm out. I thought it was the brand of paper UPM Finesse which I rarely use. I thought a change of stock solved it as when the UPM went wildly out and I put Creator in it would be bang on again. but now with Creator and although I get to 300 / 400 sheets the same is still happening.

I had a Xerox tech out last time this happened and they replaced some pressure rollers which we thought had fixed it and I finished the job that occasion but that was only two months ago and now in same situation again. I called them again and they said the machine doesn't really have an anti static measures before sheet exits the press. They just cleaned off all the rollers within the machine, made no difference with the UPM.

In Ireland so humidity is rarely an issue here, room is at 17c and 45rh. I've trimmed and left out over the weekend, I've even ran sheets through our Autocreaser which has an anti static device. I've fanned them to get air between the sheets before putting them in. No difference. Sheets aren't too bad coming off the machine but I can see in the output tray when the static has begun as slightly messier.

Anyone have any ideas or encountered similar?

 

[Cornishpastythighs]

try attaching some copper tinsel and grounding it, this sometimes helps to reduce static

 

[Stickman42]

If your side 2 is swinging by 15 mm, I think you have either an very extreme amount of static, or something in the paper path is causing/steering the sheet off its true path. That's a heck of a skew.

While the tinsel above has proven its worth in many places, I don't think you can use it internally on a V80, which is where your problem lies, it seems.

 

[pippip]

Yeh I've seen the tinsel fitted within the finishing units where there's a few options but this is within the actual print engine.

 

[azehnali]

do you have the highcapacity tray on your machine?

 

[Ynot_UK]

try attaching some copper tinsel and grounding it, this sometimes helps to reduce static

View attachment 290584

There's a Justaprinter YT video where Dan demonstrates the tinsel tip on one of his C3070s. Not tried it on our C4080 to date as have been fortunate in not having any problematic static, but definitely one to remember, certainly when printing seasonal flyers...

 

[pippip]

do you have the highcapacity tray on your machine?

Yes, Advanced High Cap. I've tried bypass and main trays with no difference.

 

[pippip]

There's a Justaprinter YT video where Dan demonstrates the tinsel tip on one of his C3070s. Not tried it on our C4080 to date as have been fortunate in not having any problematic static, but definitely one to remember, certainly when printing seasonal flyers...

Yeh I think I linked that recently on another thread. He fits it in the finisher.

 

[azehnali]

make sure feed rollers are new
dont load a lot of paper in there
and set the gsm one higher to get more air flow
there is also static free spray (works sometimes)
if that doesnt work you have paper issues

 

[azehnali]

these static modification that you all talk about is not a solution for static within the machine

 

[Repro_Pro]

Sometimes increasing the humidity in the air helps.
Years ago, when we had static problems with the films in our imagesetter, we activated a humidifier.
We don't need to nowadays, because modern films are created "Antistatic".

 

[grafix]

Hi,

Have a Versant 80. Running into a problem with 130gsm gloss. It seems the machine is building up static and causing the backup to swing. It builds up gradually so first 100 / 200 sheets would be perfect and then you'd see the back going 1mm out and slowly getting worse and worse until the image is actually off the page so about 15mm out. I thought it was the brand of paper UPM Finesse which I rarely use. I thought a change of stock solved it as when the UPM went wildly out and I put Creator in it would be bang on again. but now with Creator and although I get to 300 / 400 sheets the same is still happening.

I had a Xerox tech out last time this happened and they replaced some pressure rollers which we thought had fixed it and I finished the job that occasion but that was only two months ago and now in same situation again. I called them again and they said the machine doesn't really have an anti static measures before sheet exits the press. They just cleaned off all the rollers within the machine, made no difference with the UPM.

In Ireland so humidity is rarely an issue here, room is at 17c and 45rh. I've trimmed and left out over the weekend, I've even ran sheets through our Autocreaser which has an anti static device. I've fanned them to get air between the sheets before putting them in. No difference. Sheets aren't too bad coming off the machine but I can see in the output tray when the static has begun as slightly messier.

Anyone have any ideas or encountered similar?

I use a Versant 2100. There can be static buildup, especially when running a polyester sheet. Something like Teslin. What is your stock?

 

[pippip]

It's just a standard 130gsm gloss (Creator and UPM brands)

Unfortunately I've managed to finish the job and given it take a few hundred sheets to create the problem I'm just going to have to wait until next order. I'm expecting another run of same spec soon. In the meantime I'll keep an eye on 150gsm and 170gsm to see if any hint of similar occurring.

I'll report back.

 

[DYP]

Try taping some uncoated stock somewhere in the paper path that won't be seen by a sensor. Look to see if you can find a spot in the duplexing path.

 

[warlegs]

Hi,

Have a Versant 80. Running into a problem with 130gsm gloss. It seems the machine is building up static and causing the backup to swing. It builds up gradually so first 100 / 200 sheets would be perfect and then you'd see the back going 1mm out and slowly getting worse and worse until the image is actually off the page so about 15mm out. I thought it was the brand of paper UPM Finesse which I rarely use. I thought a change of stock solved it as when the UPM went wildly out and I put Creator in it would be bang on again. but now with Creator and although I get to 300 / 400 sheets the same is still happening.

I had a Xerox tech out last time this happened and they replaced some pressure rollers which we thought had fixed it and I finished the job that occasion but that was only two months ago and now in same situation again. I called them again and they said the machine doesn't really have an anti static measures before sheet exits the press. They just cleaned off all the rollers within the machine, made no difference with the UPM.

In Ireland so humidity is rarely an issue here, room is at 17c and 45rh. I've trimmed and left out over the weekend, I've even ran sheets through our Autocreaser which has an anti static device. I've fanned them to get air between the sheets before putting them in. No difference. Sheets aren't too bad coming off the machine but I can see in the output tray when the static has begun as slightly messier.

Anyone have any ideas or encountered similar?

Similar situation last winter but with a Versafire. Put a humidifier in there and turned up the heat a little. Haven't had a problem since.

 

[warlegs]

Having a similar situation now but the crop marks on one side of the page can be dead on but on the other side they are off... We can't skew anything and even if you did, it would throw the whole thing off anyway. ugh.

 

[pippip]

If your marks are off only on one side you must be getting some extreme distortion? Are you getting it on all stocks, card & paper?

Are the distances between the trims the same on both ends?

 

[pippip]

I had the same job in again. This time less pages so I increased to 150gsm gloss, same issue. Could only get UPM Finesse from all my suppliers for short grain so called Xerox again. When I called them I was only getting about 200 sheets through before it went, typically the following day I managed to get x2000 through and no bother before they arrived.!!!

Anyway they replaced the side door on the machine, where the duplexed sheet goes down and stops before being brought back under the transfer unit. Tech said you can get a coated build up on this unit which he had seen cause similar issues. This is the part they replaced years ago when I had same problem.

Have to wait again for a reorder to test it properly.

 

[warlegs]

If your marks are off only on one side you must be getting some extreme distortion? Are you getting it on all stocks, card & paper?

Are the distances between the trims the same on both ends?

Not sure yet, still doing testing. I was running 80# text through yesterday and the marks at the head of the sheet were off, tail of the sheet almost dead on. I then put in some C/2/S to see the outcome and it was actually a lot better. Hoping to get answers today. Curious to see how you make out with the next printing, keep us updated

 

[pippip]

So ran close to 4k double sided sheets of the UPM 130gsm gloss and not a single problem, registration was better than ever. Hardly any movement throughout the entire run. I know it had been miraculously working just before it was replaced but the registration was never as good, huge improvement. Must have been either wear or some sort of buildup on the chute they replaced.

Thanks for all the help folks.