Transparency Print Issues

[imike10]

Hi everyone, am new to this community and would appreciate if anyone can contribute to solving transparency nightmares that I see. We have client files that come in with transparency's and at times when you have type above or below the transparency it ends up printing on the proofer bolder compared to areas that are not around (transparency's). Is there a way to handle this issue so that once it goes to the proofer all type is consistent?

thanks.

 

[zoran]

Re: Transparency Print Issues

Either upgrade your workflow to handle transparency better or apply manual workaround by bringing type to topmost layer and trial and error transparency flattening.

 

[bobd]

Re: Transparency Print Issues

Michael,

How are you receiving your work? Supplied PDFs, Quark w/ transparency (shudder) or InDesign?

Zoran's advice to move type to top layer is the best solution (upgrading workflows too, but not always so feasible), but i've seen type w/ drop shadows interfere with each other with no satisfactory solution.

Also type w/ opacity applied seems to be affected by flattening also, but not usually with the "bolding" effect.

When you say "proofer", do you mean a laser printer used to check work? If so, what happens when the job hits your press?

Also, if InDesign (CS2 or CS3), you can check flatenning issues on the monitor using Flattener Preview (under Windows > Output). We check "All Affected Objects" using a custom profile based on High Quality. All objects touched by transparency issues go red; not affected stay gray.

That way you can jigger things about without going to a proof. (You'll need to refresh everytime you change something, or check "auto refresh highlight".)

Don't know if this helps, or if it's stuff you already knew.

Of course, the sardonic response is "Tell your customers not use transparency". (offer them a deep discount not to.)

Good luck.

 

[John W]

Re: Transparency Print Issues

Michael,
If you have access to the native files (and quite clearly it doesn't matter if it's Quark or Indd), the answer is a simple one that we have used for years and years to resolve blends that go from spot to process! Huh?
Split the type and the effect into separate items, ie, drop shadow remains where it is in the stacking order to effect transparency intent properly, then make a duplicate of the type, bring it above everything else and remove the duplicating effects. You may want to alter the type's own attributes on the effect version to promote good trapping. QED.

John W

 

[alarson]

Re: Transparency Print Issues

Ditch the CPSI and get the PDF Print Engine. Sooner rather than later.

Or tell Adobe to take transparency out of the next version of Creative Suite so designers will stop using it.

You shouldn't be futzin with files, and if you are don't tell your customers or they just might take their artwork to another place that doesn't re-layer, rasterize this, flatten that.

My $0.02
AL

 

[John W]

Re: Transparency Print Issues

You shouldn't be futzin with files, and if you are don't tell your customers or they just might take their artwork to another place that doesn't re-layer, rasterize this, flatten that.
Allan,
So you feel that Adobe's automation which, let's face it must flatten and rasterize to drive an engine that is a bitmap device (platesetter), will be fool proof. Then IMHO, you are the fool! No offence mate, just being usefully dramatic.

I have many personal experiences from my peers that even the APE screws up jobs (I am still HqRip). It does not always depend upon the Rip but in fact it always depends upon the quality of the build. That's my 0.02 cents worth.
John

 

[alarson]

Re: Transparency Print Issues

It's no secret that the Adobe Print Engine HAS to flatten the art before plating at the last minute. That's a good thing since all the color management, trapping, etc has been done and altered if you choose to. It's also less of a minefield compared to flattening on export from the desktop. Many designers can't even get bleed right let alone knowing even what flattening is needed for!

My best job security since Adobe announced InDesign pretty drop shadows has been the thousands of CT/LW sites and other RIPs that can't afford, in today's single digit profit print environment, to do open heart surgery on most jobs to get them out to a proof or a plate.

Call me a fool, but who is sending 2400 dpi raster data to 720dpi proofers? Some others are still bringing in "ripped" pages into Preps for layout praying for no changes. Others archive terabytes of TIFF files and then need to buy racks of servers to Blast Data down to devices.

Sorry if I am being a little over dramatic, and while things aren't yet perfect, we ain't far off 99% of the time.
AL

 

[Mark]

Re: Transparency Print Issues

Just make sure the type is on top. Make a new layer and move it to the higher layer.

 

[bobh]

Re: Transparency Print Issues

Michael,
What RIP system do you have? And what proofer are you using?
I am using the Xenith RIP made by Xitron and our proofer is an Epson 9600.
In my Xenith I have a RIP&Trap tab that I can tell each job what I want to do. In the past I had proofs that were very ugly (same as your having, fattened type and colors running on top of each other). In my RIP&Trap tab I just turn off the trapping only for the proof and that solved my problems. Now grant it I have to send my file twice or just go into the RIP&Trap tab and change the trapping back to where I want it for the plates, then recycle the job for my plate output.

See if there is a way to turn off your trapping for just the proof.

Bobh

 

[pkleinheider]

Re: Transparency Print Issues

Michael,

a lot has already been advised. Let me tell you how some of our customer handle transparency when going via a CPSI-Rip (converting PDF back to PS to render the bitmaps)

1) keep the transparency live in delivered PDF's
2) advice the PDF creator to place text always on top of transparent elements, if text shall not be converted to outline or is not part of the transparent group
3) if all text is on top, flatten the PDF in Acrobat to the resolution of the imagesetter
4) if text needs to be converted to outline, consider converting all text of the PDF to outline. This way you do not see a difference in text-boldness on LR output - like screen or proof.
5) BTW: do all color conversion before flattening transparency
6) honor all overprint setting in the flattened PDF during output

Never the less, the best way to handle live transparency is to have a RIP that renders PDF natively. This way transparency does not get flattened with all the downside of that task.
If you go that way, also make sure that your proofer is also using a native PDF renderer (if not even the same). Otherwise you will run into the same situation again for proofing.

Regards,

Peter

 

[Tech]

Re: Transparency Print Issues

It seems not too long ago when designers would avoid drop shadows and other effects like the plague because they take time to create and generate bigger files. Now we can all thank Adobe for adding easy transparency functionality to InDesign (of course Quark has to follow too) without properly explaining troubles downstream for printers.

When confronted, most designers don't even know that something as simple drop shadows can delay their jobs. Most of them don't design in layers, certainly don't keep their text on separate layers either. Hence you guys will continue to see 1) poorly constructed native files and 2) unusable PDFs....

Take the time to educate your customers/designers whenever possible... it may take awhile for things to sink in, but each time they see bad results, they can 1) acknowledge they need to improve their file construction 2) take their crap jobs to another printer and drive someone else crazy.

 

[zoran]

Re: Transparency Print Issues

I agree that Adobe came late to game for printers with PDF Print Engine.
They first opened Pandora box with easy transparency and shadows just to close it, like 5 years later for printers.

Anyway, now that solution is here, it is blessing.
We recently (3 months ago) switched to PDF workflow and I don't even care if files come in with drop shadows, transparency or you name it feature.
It just works without you poking around and re layering, etc...
Time saving is huge and piece of mind is priceless.

I am aware that it's expensive upgrade, but if your livelihood depends on it, invest in PDF technology, you won't be sorry.

I tried for the last couple of years to educate our clients, designers, etc... and failed miserably.
We created PDF/X-1a guide, all information, I've held numerous free sessions with major clients to try and educate them how to design files properly.
Return has been less than 10%.

Just like every other trade, designers are under pressure too, and they will always look for ways to utilize their investment in software.
They are always looking for easy, time saving tool such as one button drop shadow (remember when we had to do it manually in Photoshop and place in Quark?), transparency button, etc..

Go with a flow

 

[rich apollo]

Re: Transparency Print Issues

I've very rarely found customers open to being +educated+.

 

[zoran]

Re: Transparency Print Issues

My experience is different.
I've been to many clients and they appreciated free education.
Problem is that they are not exposed to it all the time.
Month or two mostly after I leave they tend to easily forget what has been showed to them and they go back to their "normal", wrong routine.

They are just not exposed to high-end software, rips, presses, etc.. and can't be bothered too much to understand something they are clueless about.

On the other hand I run into couple of "know it all" designers who got annoyed by the offer to teach them thing or two, even though they were far away from knowing it all.

I have yet to run into designer who is hungry for technical knowledge. As long as they get by, they are happy for the most part.