UV PMS 2965 on Yupo

[Newtothezoo]

We can't get a UV PMS 2965 to adhere to Yupo. The orange we run and the 4/c adheres just fine. We have tried a couple brands from Flint with no success. We have focused on keeping water as low as possible, but there is small reversed type that plugs and the ink needs to be pushed to get the color. A dry drawdown adheres fine.
Can someone please offer your experience with Yupo an UV printing or your thoughts? The ink company is telling us we need to run this conventionally. The Yupo guy is telling us we should run this UV.

Thank you

 

[Cold]

Hello Newt,
Below is my impromptu opinion, with the caveat, there is always more than one way to skin a cat.

I'd recommend double hitting this color. This is why:

A. The density needed to achieve 2965 in particular is, most likely, requiring that you run way too much ink.
B. You are having to run heavy on the water to keep your reverse open, in large part to the heavy ink film you are running, which is only complicating the issue further.
C. The ink film could be too great with that dark of a color to get a proper cure. Coupled with the fact that it is loaded with F.S. is not helping.

If you have interstation curing, cool, it is still a one pass job. If not, it would have to be 2 passes.

Here is the big issue with my proposed solution, FIT. A second pass will most likely require opening up the artwork so both hits fit.

Caution: If you do go conventional, you could still be running into a water issue, in turn possibly causing a drying nightmare. Thus, if you go conventional consider two hits in that situation as well.

Best Regards,



Cold

 

[esmith214]

Have Flint increase the pigment in the ink. Should reduce the ink film needed and give you better control.

 

[REYES1377]

I'll keep this short and simple. Your saying adhesion, right? You need to prime the sheet with a transparent white. It will make ink adhere way better! UV is the way to go! if you have it then use!

 

[D Ink Man]

If you can double hit do it. 1st hit 40% screen, second hit solid.

Beyond that.....

Flint will not specially formulate an ink with more pigment, especially UV curable ink.

Contact Jules Angstrom or Zeller Gmelin. They might be willing to formulate you an ink from dry pigment scratch to accomplish this. The formula will have to contain a minimum of 25%-27% dry pigment, combining all colorants that make up the blend. Let's see if an ink company is willing to go the extra yard for service in suppling you a one impression pMS 2965.

I can formulate it for sure, just don't have an ink company to do it for. It is not a problem with the YUPO. It is a problem created by pAntone and a problem that a legitimate ink supplier should take care of for you.

Thanks to pantone, pMS 2965 is very difficult to achieve with any lithographic ink because of the paint job density they have in the specimen book. pantone+ editions did no better at addressing the problem.

 

[Cold]

If you can double hit do it. 1st hit 40% screen, second hit solid.

Beyond that.....

Flint will not specially formulate an ink with more pigment, especially UV curable ink.

Contact Jules Angstrom or Zeller Gmelin. They might be willing to formulate you an ink from dry pigment scratch to accomplish this. The formula will have to contain a minimum of 25%-27% dry pigment, combining all colorants that make up the blend. Let's see if an ink company is willing to go the extra yard for service in suppling you a one impression pMS 2965.

I can formulate it for sure, just don't have an ink company to do it for. It is not a problem with the YUPO. It is a problem created by pAntone and a problem that a legitimate ink supplier should take care of for you.

Thanks to pantone, pMS 2965 is very difficult to achieve with any lithographic ink because of the paint job density they have in the specimen book. pantone+ editions did no better at addressing the problem.

Same take I am on D. This is, in my opinion a target issue, not a stock or an ink issue. I custom made strong ink should most definitely help, but wouldn't be surprised if it doesn't get all the way there.

Pantone = facepalm... again.

 

[TheProcessIStheproduct]

Sorry for your problem, but for us conventional guys it sure is nice to hear about UV problems, the manufactures keep flogging UV as a panacea, saying it will print on anything, guess not "anything"...

 

[D Ink Man]

Yes it is, a pAINTONE problem for all of us to deal with. Shame. The pMS fellers need some competition. Someone who sells color with PRACTICALITY for all who use it. D

 

[DIC Australia]

Biased view of an inkmaker: Yes, Pantones fault!
D Ink Man is right that most ink companies cant/wont add pigment fo a small order of a PMS blend, but they may be able to rematch the shade using a non Pantone base ink...IF they have one in their range.
Otherwise the above suggestions are all pretty good, underprint with a screen of up to 50% followed by a solid....interdecks on if you have them.

 

[D Ink Man]

Hey DIC> Before you claim "Biased view of an inkmaker", let me pose a question to you out there in the SUNnny outback.

Give your appraisal of the relative ink differences in a pAINTONE example. I will test you. pAINTONE Reflex Blue versus pAINTONE Rhodamine Red. What is the difference in lithographic ink film between the two? The question is posed based on the two inks having registered pAINTONE color strength by tinctorial bleach out test. The question is also based that the two inks, Reflex and Rhodamine, have the same rheological properties for an equal transfer of ink; plate, to blanket to paper.

I absolutely know the answer to the question I just asked you DIC.

Now please answer it without being BIASED.

Thank you for your support. D

 

[DIC Australia]

firstly, it is 10 degrees C here in suburban melbourne!
secondly, i was suggesting that it was I who was biased against Pantone (or PAINtone as you rightly point out) my biggest issue with them is not so much their base colour formulations but their PMS formulae. Specifically making grey colours from warm red and green is something that I generally grumble at colour matching trainees about doing.
Similarly from UV point of view, colours requiring a particularly heavy filmweight to match Pantone often show curing (interpeted above as adhesion) problems usually these will be dark blues or purples.
My BIASED answer would be that I would expect to run more Reflex to match the Pantone book than I would have to run rhodamine...but I imagine you about to tell me in how many ways I am wrong

 

[D Ink Man]

You're right DIC. 2X film for Reflex versus Rhodamine. Printers know that, especially trying to achieve solid density in line with light screen values.

Dic, don't you agree pMS needs a run for their money from some competitive alternative?

Use to be 483 colors. Now how many is it? What you think of those tint flourescents in pAINTONE+? Those are some jewels, eh.

 

[Cold]

The tale of three...

Three ink people from three different parts of the world and three different ink companies from small regional to a giant Sun.

What do these three Ink people have in common?


All three have low opinions of Pantone.

 

[D Ink Man]

Cold hard fact. pANTONE only sells COLOR. I have never seen COLOR in a presses ink fountain. Ooooh lala! D