Versant 280 Registration

NorwoodPress

Well-known member
We have recently purchased a brand new Versant 280, here in the UK.

On a job today I noticed that despite setting up a profile for the SRA3 uncoated 350gsm stock for alignment from tray 6, I could see that the artwork was shifting up and down and not staying in the same position.

Now I did find in the admin settings there was register paper feeding tray and after doing that it looks to improved it, but there is still the odd one slightly moving.

Is there anything else I can try doing? Is this something normal and in tolerance with the Versant 280?

The job is double sided duplex, colour one side and grayscale the other.

The first 2 photos show what it was like before and the other 2 show after trying the register paper feeding tray setting.
 

Attachments

  • IMG_1467.jpeg
    IMG_1467.jpeg
    2.4 MB · Views: 241
  • IMG_1466.jpeg
    IMG_1466.jpeg
    2.7 MB · Views: 226
  • IMG_1464.jpeg
    IMG_1464.jpeg
    2 MB · Views: 214
  • IMG_1465.jpeg
    IMG_1465.jpeg
    3.1 MB · Views: 221
Do you know if the 350gsm is long grain or short grain? At that weight it might just be the difference.
We have a V80 and although it's not supposed to I regularly duplex 350gsm SG (Prodesign, Mondi, DCP) and it would be pretty bang on.
 
I found that a few paper mills aren’t that great at sheeting and if your sheets are not all the same length you’ll see problems with front to back registration. If that’s the case you’ll need to back trim your stock to make them consistent.

When you run your registration alignment run more than one sheet and scan something like 3 or 4 sheets instead of just 1. The sheets should be averaged when registration is calculated. I never do this unless the sheets can be fed through the document feeder because it’s too time consuming on the glass but maybe worth the time to give it a try.

You could try adjusting the Regi-Loop in your custom paper setting, do this in small adjustments to see if registration improves. A higher number will give more pressure to register the sheet and a lower number will give less pressure. If you’ve ever run a offset press this would be similar to increasing the buckle.
 
I found that a few paper mills aren’t that great at sheeting and if your sheets are not all the same length you’ll see problems with front to back registration. If that’s the case you’ll need to back trim your stock to make them consistent.

When you run your registration alignment run more than one sheet and scan something like 3 or 4 sheets instead of just 1. The sheets should be averaged when registration is calculated. I never do this unless the sheets can be fed through the document feeder because it’s too time consuming on the glass but maybe worth the time to give it a try.

You could try adjusting the Regi-Loop in your custom paper setting, do this in small adjustments to see if registration improves. A higher number will give more pressure to register the sheet and a lower number will give less pressure. If you’ve ever run a offset press this would be similar to increasing the buckle.
There is a whole suite of procedures for registration in service mode. All these procedures must be performed in a certain order to obtain the best results. Place a call to xerox tech or purchase service manual and do it yourself.
 
There is a whole suite of procedures for registration in service mode. All these procedures must be performed in a certain order to obtain the best results. Place a call to xerox tech or purchase service manual and do it yourself.
If this is a new install then ALL those procedures should have been performed prior to the technicians leaving. There is a reason the user has the option to perform the tray alignment, paper tray alignment and regi-loop adjustments. I get what you’re saying but it’s not always necessary or feasible to call a tech and sometimes people post on this forum after they have already exhausted all the options that the “trained Xerox tech” performed. FYI my “trained Xerox tech” never used or heard of the paper tray alignment.
 
If this is a new install then ALL those procedures should have been performed prior to the technicians leaving. There is a reason the user has the option to perform the tray alignment, paper tray alignment and regi-loop adjustments. I get what you’re saying but it’s not always necessary or feasible to call a tech and sometimes people post on this forum after they have already exhausted all the options that the “trained Xerox tech” performed. FYI my “trained Xerox tech” never used or heard of the paper tray alignment.
And the standard tray alignments in service mode are based and required to use standard 11 x 17 sheets. Because of this I would never let a tech touch the alignment when I was running this level; of printer. I would make the changes myself or tell the tech what values to put in if he was here. If you know what changes need to be made when in service mode alignment change the tray to 11 x 17 paper and GSM and make the changes other wise you can make the changes in the NVM settings. Alignment for inboard outboard are per tray. Lead edge to trail edge is per paper weight and affects all trays.
 
I found that a few paper mills aren’t that great at sheeting and if your sheets are not all the same length you’ll see problems with front to back registration. If that’s the case you’ll need to back trim your stock to make them consistent.

When you run your registration alignment run more than one sheet and scan something like 3 or 4 sheets instead of just 1. The sheets should be averaged when registration is calculated. I never do this unless the sheets can be fed through the document feeder because it’s too time consuming on the glass but maybe worth the time to give it a try.

You could try adjusting the Regi-Loop in your custom paper setting, do this in small adjustments to see if registration improves. A higher number will give more pressure to register the sheet and a lower number will give less pressure. If you’ve ever run a offset press this would be similar to increasing the buckle.


Yeah this is a good tip for heavy uncoated stocks - they aren’t perfect. Finch 130# uncoated cover is bad - every other sheet varies quite significantly. I use a lot of it on tight registering cards so i back trim 19x13 to 18.8x12.8.
 
Do you know if the 350gsm is long grain or short grain? At that weight it might just be the difference.
We have a V80 and although it's not supposed to I regularly duplex 350gsm SG (Prodesign, Mondi, DCP) and it would be pretty bang on.
It was originally long grain in SRA2 called Horizon and then I cut it in half to SRA3. I have ordered some digital Coral SRA3 so I can see if there is an improvement.
 
I found that a few paper mills aren’t that great at sheeting and if your sheets are not all the same length you’ll see problems with front to back registration. If that’s the case you’ll need to back trim your stock to make them consistent.

When you run your registration alignment run more than one sheet and scan something like 3 or 4 sheets instead of just 1. The sheets should be averaged when registration is calculated. I never do this unless the sheets can be fed through the document feeder because it’s too time consuming on the glass but maybe worth the time to give it a try.

You could try adjusting the Regi-Loop in your custom paper setting, do this in small adjustments to see if registration improves. A higher number will give more pressure to register the sheet and a lower number will give less pressure. If you’ve ever run an offset press this would be similar to increasing the buckle.
I shall give them recommendations a go. Thanks
 
We have recently purchased a brand new Versant 280, here in the UK.

On a job today I noticed that despite setting up a profile for the SRA3 uncoated 350gsm stock for alignment from tray 6, I could see that the artwork was shifting up and down and not staying in the same position.

Now I did find in the admin settings there was register paper feeding tray and after doing that it looks to improved it, but there is still the odd one slightly moving.

Is there anything else I can try doing? Is this something normal and in tolerance with the Versant 280?

The job is double sided duplex, colour one side and grayscale the other.

The first 2 photos show what it was like before and the other 2 show after trying the register paper feeding tray setting.
I am looking into buying a versant 280, whats your feedback? good machine?
 
I am looking into buying a versant 280, whats your feedback? good machine?
So, after using the printer now for 1 year, I will give you my honest feedback on the machine. Now there are some good and bad points with the machine, as suspected with anything. Prior to us having the Versant 280, we did have a Xerox C60, so it was quite a big upgrade for us as you can imagine. Our setup of the Versant 280 consists of 2 high capacity trays, decurler module and production ready booklet maker finisher. We also have an external Fiery along with Fiery Impose software, which again is a massive benefit, especially for imposition and gang-up etc. Previously this was something we did manually in Adobe InDesign. If you are planning to get a Versant 280, I would highly recommend getting just those add-ons, as trays 1-3 are not the most reliable really for registration (something I will talk about later) trays 6 and 7 are more reliable for this, plus they can hold more paper and the paper has a more flatter path to go through. Also if you are looking at the trimmer knife module and square-fold module, from speaking to other customers and Xerox engineers, you would be better off buying a offline standalone booklet trimmer, as adding these onto the machine it does slow it down and it is prone to have jams and not the most reliable. Plus the added costs.

One of the main benefits was being able to duplex up to 350gsm, of which it does do a decent job at. The decurler module has been another benefit, as when printing thick card stock or NCR (carbon paper) the sheets come out lovely and flat, compared to our old C60. Having the paper profiles you can easily adjust the fuser temperature for each paper type which also helps for paper curl. For colour consistency I have noticed especially on solid colours when you gang-up a job, that sometimes you can get variation in colours where one side of the sheet seems to be darker than the other. You do still get banding, however it is more of an improvement, again coming from using the C60. Also if you are printing a full colour coverage, because of the limitation of the transfer belt length, you can get a solid line going across from where toner has to replenish back onto the transfer belt (basically where it starts and ends).

Another main disappointment is the "scratch lines" as I call them. These are more notable when printing on thicker coated card stock (uncoated you can sometimes get away with) and having a solid colour, especially if it's a duplex job. These scratch lines are caused from the plastic baffles inside the main engine itself. So you will get thin lines all over the sheet, as though someone has brushed a porcupine or hedgehog over it. From speaking to other people and Xerox engineers, apparently even the next machines up like the Iridesse still have these issues. (Maybe for Xerox to go back to the drawing board to look at?).

Coming back to registration, now its not the most 100% reliable, you do seem to get a movement shift now and again (I do believe the machine has a tolerance of +/- 2mm-3mm. Which can be annoying especially if you are doing numbered NCR (carbon paper) when printing 2 or 3 different coloured sheets at the time, as you want these to line up. It is handy having the paper library to have these paper stocks setup. The idea behind this is so each paper stock has its own alignment profile saved so it remembers for next time, but I have found that whenever you are changing stocks in the trays, always perform a alignment profile as it does seem to shift when printing a profile test sheet. If you do print a long run job, again registration can all of a sudden move, so you have to keep an eye out on the output tray, as from previous experience leaving it to run, you can have a nightmare at the end going through them. I have also done a few jobs making use of the long sheet banner printing, which has been quite effective, but again you do get quite a bit of movement registration.

Lastly, one of the main things you will experience with this machine, is a well known issue (and Xerox are aware of it), is the famous 2nd BTR, where basically the roller is worn and starts to get channels grooved onto the roller after time, especially if you run thicker card stock a-lot and you will start to get black marking lines over the sheet. Since having the machine, I have had it changed 4 times so far, the last one did last long at all. But again it just depends on what paper stock you will be printing on, if you don't print on much thick card, then it can last for a long while. Basically you can call out an engineer or do it yourself, like I have done, where you have to unscrew and take the whole part out and replace. It sure is headache when you get it, sometimes it is handy if you can get hold of a spare on standby, but currently they are like gold dust and even the engineers don't have them in stock with them. It must be a costly resource for Xerox and I'm surprised they haven't found a solution yet, well not in the UK they haven't. (Perhaps another thing to add to Xerox's drawing board).

Personally I think Xerox could actually do with sitting down and talking to their digital print customers and asking them what we need and how to improve the machine so we don't have these issues in 2024 and then we might actually get a reliable and efficient printer for the digital print market. Regarding Xerox engineer service, I have had no problems with getting them out ti service the machine, sometimes they can even turn up the same day. I also have my machine setup to re-order toner consumables automatically which always come in good time. So I hope my honest feedback has helped for you.
 
Last edited:
The idea behind this is so each paper stock has its own alignment profile saved so it remembers for next time, but I have found that whenever you are changing stocks in the trays, always perform a alignment profile as it does seem to shift when printing a profile test sheet. If you do print a long run job, again registration can all of a sudden move, so you have to keep an eye out on the output tray, as from previous experience leaving it to run, you can have a nightmare at the end going through them
When you say you are printing a profile test sheet, are you being literal in that you are only printing one test sheet? I print a minimum of 3 SIQA sheets on our Versant 180 and find that the first sheet is typically not like the following two. A statement might be that "the first sheet's registration characteristics, when changing the tray or loading more paper, can be discarded, as it is typically erratic when compared to future sheets." So I usually choose between the second and third sheet for which one to use in the SIQA process.

Does that match what other people see with their machines?
 
Is the 2btr different to the v80 2nd btr. I currently have 5 brand new on site due to the rate we are changing them. Everytime I have an engineer visit which is about once or twice a month he brings another in and orders a spare for me. Get friendly with your engineer and buy him coffee and see if he will order you a couple.
 
Is the 2btr different to the v80 2nd btr. I currently have 5 brand new on site due to the rate we are changing them. Everytime I have an engineer visit which is about once or twice a month he brings another in and orders a spare for me. Get friendly with your engineer and buy him coffee and see if he will order you a couple.
From on here the v280 still suffers same issues as v80. A few on here reported new btrs with metal rollers but that caused other issues. I've never seen these in Ireland.

I will say the btr itself is different, I got sent a v280 btr by mistake and it printed but image size kept changing sheet to sheet like a yoyo, engineer spotted the part number was not right by chance.
 
From on here the v280 still suffers same issues as v80. A few on here reported new btrs with metal rollers but that caused other issues. I've never seen these in Ireland.

I will say the btr itself is different, I got sent a v280 btr by mistake and it printed but image size kept changing sheet to sheet like a yoyo, engineer spotted the part number was not right by chance.
When you say the image size kept changing, do you mean as in registration or the whole artwork moving on the sheet? Its just that I've noticed that when I do NCR Carbon paper, I seem to see it keep moving from the edge of the paper.
 
When you say the image size kept changing, do you mean as in registration or the whole artwork moving on the sheet? Its just that I've noticed that when I do NCR Carbon paper, I seem to see it keep moving from the edge of the paper.
I have been doing what seems like an ungodly amount of ncr in the recent weeks and on my 80, the image seems to be all over the place. Top to bottom is fine but it seems to wander side to side quite a bit.
 
I have been doing what seems like an ungodly amount of ncr in the recent weeks and on my 80, the image seems to be all over the place. Top to bottom is fine but it seems to wander side to side quite a bit.
Interesting, that is exactly the same issue I keep having. The way I know that it is happening, is because on the Fiery impose software, on the layup I placed a L shape registration mark so I can easily identify on the edge of the paper. The brand of NCR I use is called React Digital, here in the UK. Not sure where you are based. We have the Versant 280.
 
It's the react digital as well that we use from antalis. I also use the giroform recollated stuff and don't seem to have that problem. We are up in the North west
 

PressWise

A 30-day Fix for Managed Chaos

As any print professional knows, printing can be managed chaos. Software that solves multiple problems and provides measurable and monetizable value has a direct impact on the bottom-line.

“We reduced order entry costs by about 40%.” Significant savings in a shop that turns about 500 jobs a month.


Learn how…….

   
Back
Top