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Versatile, Reliable, Beginner Press

rwyeth

Active member
So, the conclusion among most people about my recently acquired Konica C8000 is that I should get rid of it before it causes me more trouble and get something different. I'm running it; but, it has been a struggle with every job to keep the thing going. I just finished 3,000 NCR forms on my large Lexmark office printer because it is far more reliable and has better registration.

My question is, what do I replace the KM C8000 with? I'd really like something from this decade that will print NCR all the way up to 350gsm reliably and affordably. Should I be looking at a newer smaller Konica (what model)? Or, is the Xante En/Press really that bad of a machine? For the relatively small volume I currently do, and the fact that it can allegedly do light stock, 400 gsm, and envelopes, it seems like it would be an excellent fit for someone just starting out that wants to expand their offerings without multiple machines.

Any input would be greatly appreciated. And, if anyone is looking for a KM C8000, I may have one for sale (Illinois).
 
What is the volume you will be doing? 3000/month?
It varies, being a part-time gig that I hardly advertise. But, I'd say that it is probably 20,000-30,000/mo. currently. But, of course, I do plan to slowly expand that (reliable equipment would make me more apt to take on more work).
 
that is not a beginners volume
90% of the print shops do up to 50K in volume and you are almost there
look into the xerox versant
simple to use and will do all kind of papers and envelopes
 
that is not a beginners volume
90% of the print shops do up to 50K in volume and you are almost there
look into the xerox versant
simple to use and will do all kind of papers and envelopes
50k? Most of what I am doing is NCR, so the volume adds up fairly quickly. But, I certainly don't feel I could run a successful business and pay overhead on 50k impressions a month. I will certainly take a look at the Versant line. Are there certain models to avoid on the used market?
Thanks
 
I would talk to your local dealers and see what stock they have in and can put on a CPC service contract. Make sure the machine is rated for running NCR as not all are. The Ricoh 7200 is rated for NCR, but the servicing tech will hate you, which will probably go for any machine. Local dealer might have a demo 7200 they can make a deal on.
 
that is not a beginners volume
90% of the print shops do up to 50K in volume and you are almost there
look into the xerox versant
simple to use and will do all kind of papers and envelopes
+1

We had a Versant 2100 and I loved that press, still miss it today. We have a Konica C7090, it is a nice press but Versant was much more robust and flexible, printing everything with ease from envelopes to NCR and everything in between. The software setup is also much better then what we have with our Konica now.
 
Is the majority of your work black only or color?

If you could explain in a bit more detail what you would like to do I think you’ll get some better insight as to what would work best for you.
 
50k? Most of what I am doing is NCR, so the volume adds up fairly quickly. But, I certainly don't feel I could run a successful business and pay overhead on 50k impressions a month. I will certainly take a look at the Versant line. Are there certain models to avoid on the used market?
Thanks
everything depends on your budget ,but leasing is probably in a good choice
let me know after you do some investigation
I can quote you some prices
 
So, the conclusion among most people about my recently acquired Konica C8000 is that I should get rid of it before it causes me more trouble and get something different. I'm running it; but, it has been a struggle with every job to keep the thing going. I just finished 3,000 NCR forms on my large Lexmark office printer because it is far more reliable and has better registration.

My question is, what do I replace the KM C8000 with? I'd really like something from this decade that will print NCR all the way up to 350gsm reliably and affordably...
I'm sure as a printer, you want a machine you can rely on and to know exactly what the all-inclusive costs are. Without that, you cannot cost and price jobs accurately and/or you spend an indiscriminate amount of your own valuable time trying to be an engineer and tinkering with a machine to keep it limping along, distracting from your core business.

That's why it is absolutely imperative to have a click contract which includes parts, labour and toner - so the only variable is the substrates you print to. When your machine is not working as it should, you call your provider to resolve the issue. Preventative maintenance will be done on schedule and the engineer/s working on your machine will know exactly and quickly what's wrong and what parts are needed, with same or next day access to them.

The 50k/month volume you're clocking is respectable, although you've not indicated the colour/B&W split. You need to decide if you want to take on a new machine, typically leased but not always - we purchased our KM C4080 outright - or if you want to build a relationship with a dealer who will source you a good second user machine which thy will refurb to a standard that they'll put it on a click contract. The latter would likely be an outright purchase like you did with that C8000, but again will be much less dollar than a new machine.

Don't under-estimate the importance of any of the above. The search facility on this forum contains many tales of people buying what looked to be bargains but turned out to be boat anchors, sometimes never working at all. At least you got a few prints out of your C8000 ! There will always be cheap "fully loaded" kit on auction sites and on these forums, peddled by those who see the forums as a free version of Craigslist. The difference in buying your refurb machine from the dealer whom will maintain them under contract, is they're not going to source a problem for themselves.

In addition to our C4080, thanks to some great advice from @jwheeler on this forum a few years ago, we also have a dedicated B/W machine, a KM Pro-951. This is a great example of what I've talked about above. That has been a fantastic machine, it was sourced by our dealer in 2020, extensively refurbed by the dealer at their workshop before we had it delivered with 1.1m on the billing counter, around 900k of that being A4 (the original owner was a fulfilment warehouse and it was used to print delivery notes, etc. so had an easy life) It now has 2.8m on the billing counter, with over 80% of our usage being A3. We negotiated a very competitive fixed click charge for five years and have enjoyed same/next day service and no down time over 24 hours for the past 2½ years. Could we have found a cheaper second-hand Pro951 ourselves? Absolutely... but it would be a complete unknown, probably have 10 million clicks on it, and no-one would put it on contract, hence it would be a boat anchor.

If taking the new route, look at what the big four have to offer. Although we are KM and I don't see that ever changing, if I were totally new to this and just doing my research, Ricoh would definitely be most interesting to explore in terms of offerings. Xerox have the much publicised drum issues that wreaked unforgiveable havoc for so many digital printers, KM had the toner supply issues following a factory fire which did them no favours, although having a great dealer they buffered against this so fortunately we weren't affected. Whereas Ricoh seem comparatively clean. Also check out Canon's offering.

Good luck!
 
I would talk to your local dealers and see what stock they have in and can put on a CPC service contract. Make sure the machine is rated for running NCR as not all are. The Ricoh 7200 is rated for NCR, but the servicing tech will hate you, which will probably go for any machine. Local dealer might have a demo 7200 they can make a deal on.
I have found ncr is fine as long as isn't all you run. I don't have problems with it at normal print shops. If that's all you run then you have problems with all the rollers swelling.
 
@rwyeth in order to provide sound advice, I'd agree with others that you need to provide a better breakdown of what your monthly volume consists of...be specific. What % of your work NCR? And for the NCR, is it b&w or color? What does the rest of your volume consist of?
 
I know, this is an old thread, but - just out of curiosity, - what is wrong mit KM C8000? I thought, this used to be a top of the line Digital Press some years ago? Can't imagine, that it has a worse registration than an office printer?!
 
I know, this is an old thread, but - just out of curiosity, - what is wrong mit KM C8000? I thought, this used to be a top of the line Digital Press some years ago? Can't imagine, that it has a worse registration than an office printer?!
Iirc it was a first iteration of a new machine which was plagued with problems. Users and Konica couldn't get them out of service fast enough.

With regards to registration, yes, in principle you would expect a production printer to be capable of more accurate registration (once calibrated) than an office printer. BUT - that is dependent upon the production printer being appropriately serviced and maintained, and also being operated by user that knows what they are doing.

An old, complicated production printer which is not being properly maintained and supported is a bit like an old racing car which is being run without a team of mechanics. It might be faster and better, but without appropriate support you're more likely to reach the finish line in a Toyota Aygo.
 
+1

We had a Versant 2100 and I loved that press, still miss it today. We have a Konica C7090, it is a nice press but Versant was much more robust and flexible, printing everything with ease from envelopes to NCR and everything in between. The software setup is also much better then what we have with our Konica now.
I am being offered both, versant 280 and konica C7090, I am looking to do 350,000 SRA3 clicks per months. Pick one..
 
I am being offered both, versant 280 and konica C7090, I am looking to do 350,000 SRA3 clicks per months. Pick one..
Definitely don't get the KM C7090. We have one and do probably half the volume you do. We (and others in our area according to out techs) have constant issues with it. Unfortunately KM built the C7090 on the C3070 frame, using just about all of the same components, and just speeding it up. The C3070/C4070 is a great engine for lower volume, but not for what you're discussing. This has resulted in the machine not holding color consistently, color registration going in and out, and components needing to be constantly replaced. We have a C6085 which is a workhorse and would handle that volume better. We needed a 2nd press for redundancy and unfortunately the C7090 was our only option since there were no more C6085's available.

That doesn't mean I'm recommending the Versant 280. I've never ran one, so I can't speak to it. However, after being on this forum for several years, it's clear that the reliability and trust in the Xerox brand has been waning, especially since they broke ties with Fuji. Spend an hour reading through the forums here and you'll see that many long-time Xerox shops have switched over to Ricoh and have been very happy with the decision. At your volume, I'd recommend the C9500 or two C7500's.

If you insist on sticking with the Xerox brand, I don't think the Versant 280 is meant to reliably handle the volume of SRA3 you mentioned. You should jump up to at least the V4100, but more likely the Iridesse. Xerox posts the recommended monthly volume of each model on their website, and you exceed both. (Those volumes are based on A4.) If I were in your position, I would be getting two machines to split the volume between. In that case, get two Xerox V4100's or two Ricoh C7500's.

1707410607504.png
 
I am being offered both, versant 280 and konica C7090, I am looking to do 350,000 SRA3 clicks per months. Pick one..
without question I would pick the Versant. This is based on my experience with the 2100, not sure of the differences with the 280. A few annoying things we had with the C7090, it would not auto select trays so if I wanted to load up 2 or 3 trays with the same stock it would not work as I would have to tell the job what tray to pull from, auto did not work. This is a big thing if you are running a lot of the same thing and want to go longer without having to load paper. Service could not sort this out, not sure if it was an issue unique to us or common among all the models out there.
 
without question I would pick the Versant. This is based on my experience with the 2100, not sure of the differences with the 280. A few annoying things we had with the C7090, it would not auto select trays so if I wanted to load up 2 or 3 trays with the same stock it would not work as I would have to tell the job what tray to pull from, auto did not work. This is a big thing if you are running a lot of the same thing and want to go longer without having to load paper. Service could not sort this out, not sure if it was an issue unique to us or common among all the models out there.
That must be unique to you. We have the C7090 and this has never been an issue (but I still don't recommend the C7090). Did you have the KM or Fiery controller?
 
Definitely don't get the KM C7090. We have one and do probably half the volume you do. We (and others in our area according to out techs) have constant issues with it. Unfortunately KM built the C7090 on the C3070 frame, using just about all of the same components, and just speeding it up. The C3070/C4070 is a great engine for lower volume, but not for what you're discussing. This has resulted in the machine not holding color consistently, color registration going in and out, and components needing to be constantly replaced. We have a C6085 which is a workhorse and would handle that volume better. We needed a 2nd press for redundancy and unfortunately the C7090 was our only option since there were no more C6085's available.

That doesn't mean I'm recommending the Versant 280. I've never ran one, so I can't speak to it. However, after being on this forum for several years, it's clear that the reliability and trust in the Xerox brand has been waning, especially since they broke ties with Fuji. Spend an hour reading through the forums here and you'll see that many long-time Xerox shops have switched over to Ricoh and have been very happy with the decision. At your volume, I'd recommend the C9500 or two C7500's.

If you insist on sticking with the Xerox brand, I don't think the Versant 280 is meant to reliably handle the volume of SRA3 you mentioned. You should jump up to at least the V4100, but more likely the Iridesse. Xerox posts the recommended monthly volume of each model on their website, and you exceed both. (Those volumes are based on A4.) If I were in your position, I would be getting two machines to split the volume between. In that case, get two Xerox V4100's or two Ricoh C7500's.

View attachment 292519
if you think you can run those volumes monthly you are dreaming
 

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