what to buy for a low volume ctp platemaker

Looking for advise on the best ctp platemaker to use for low print production 5-10 plates a week. The press we have is a Quickmaster2(QM2). We have a Agfa Accuset but find we don't make enough plates to justify the expense of the chemicals and the waste on the leader end of the film. Some of the low run paltemaker I am aware of are the Kimosetter and the HP 5000 laser... some insight to help me resolve this dilemma is much appreciated
 
Try the Xante PM5

Try the Xante PM5

I have the Xante PM5 platemaker and it's great for line art plates. Grayscale are OK, but will not come close to your Accuset in quality.

Hurst plates recommends the Okidata C9650 printer because the HP5000/5001 are old laser printers and are no longer supported by HP. But again grayscale is OK.

Another CTP similar to Kimosetter is the Glutz and Jensen, I've heard good things about both, but at that expense I would look at one from ECRM (who bought out the Mitsubishi) brand or Xante (who bought out the Ripit brand) both have poly and metal plate models that require processors. The Xante-Mitsubishi and Xante-Ripit models will reproduce high quality grayscales, heavy coverage with great reverse text.
 
The cheapest solution for you - just switch your process from the film to polyestep plate material AGFA SetPrint or Mitsubishi SilverPlate, using your Accuset. Use the same Processor but with another chemistry - Activator and Stabiliser.
Wanna save a penny - drain the chemistry daily in jugs and keep it closed.
You will save some plate material on clamps and gripper as well, instead of wasting leader and tail cut of film.
 
Looking for advise on the best ctp platemaker to use for low print production 5-10 plates a week. The press we have is a Quickmaster2(QM2). We have a Agfa Accuset but find we don't make enough plates to justify the expense of the chemicals and the waste on the leader end of the film. Some of the low run paltemaker I am aware of are the Kimosetter and the HP 5000 laser... some insight to help me resolve this dilemma is much appreciated

You don't say where in the world you are, US or Europe...

"JamieZ" suggested looking at the Glunz & Jensen system.

The Glunz & Jensen solution for a QM-46 is the PlateWriter 2000, I suspect though that this system would be difficult to justify given your plate volume.

The Glunz & Jensen PlateWriter2000, is the third generation inkjet CTP system from Glunz & Jensen. It uses heavily modified inkjet printer running at either 2880 x 2880 dpi or 1440 x 1440 dpi and jets a diazo based specialist ink on to a metal plate. Then using the integrated finishing unit below, it cures the image onto the plate for circa 50,000 impressions... it is a chemistry free system, as you only use the ink and then heat to fix the ink to the plate.

The plates are loaded with an optical registration system and it is very accurate, relpeatable and smooth throughout the tonal ranges providing nice flat tints and well contoured gradients.

The Metal plates will set you back between $2.50 - $2.68 per plate, and the only other cost is the ink, which will depend upon coverage, but for an average letterhead or business card will be around an additional 25-35c and for full coverage flyers come up to nearer 75c +. That's it, no other costs.... and no chemicals, or disposal costs... plus no labour costs, as you only load the plate and click print.. no laying up of film or anything...
It comes with everything you need including the Harlequin RIP and hardware platform..

Pricing ... the Glunz & Jensen PalteWriter 2000 unit should set you back $25,000 (circa) with some kind of delivery charge.. and maybe an installation charge, depending on where you go...

At only 5 - 10 plates a week, I think this makes the unit difficult to make a return on your investment, really it is aimed at users making 100 - 1000 plates per month.. having said that, there are users in your bracket specially small print shops and in-plants who seek chemistry free and hate cleaning processors, ect that desitre a "no maintenance solution" that seek them out.

Having said that there are some "part funded" finance deals provided by G&J to enable users to finance over 3 years, the deal I saw last week, was 10 months interest free OR $800 deposit and Nothing to pay for 3 months, then 33 months of payments at a much more palatable $200 per week ....

The Glunz & Jensen PlateWriter2000 will provide much better quality than a HP laser printer and polyester plates. (typically the older Mono laser based solutions strugle with greytones, and nothing above 120lpi, also banding in gradient tints.) Note the HP5000 laser printer based solution is limited to 305mm width so you will get ink build up on your 340mm wide QM46 cylinder, which is no issue when loading the plates but the autoeject does not work, as the ink sticks the plates on..

To solve this, and again as "JaimeZ" said, consider the Xante PlateMaker5, this is a much more accomplished laser printer engine, capable of the full 340mm width, and capable of resolving better greyscales, at a push you can get 133 - 150 lpi with better control over halftone reproduction and even a control called X-Act which allows users to calibrate the impact of the heat in the laser printer causing the polyester to stretch.. In comparison to the HP the Xante has less banding. But, test close register work before going down this route, the feeding mechanism has a tendancy to be less accurate than more expensive solutions, and the polyester has a habbit of feeding slightly out of square and inconsistently, an effect which is compunded by the heat applied - so whilst it is acehiveable, anything with tight register needs patience and maybe a few extra plates....

The benefit of either of these laser printer based printers, is like the InkJet based CTP solution from Glunz & Jensen... they are chemistry free. However, the real advantage is the cost... these laser based solutions as they ae based on older phased out laser engines can be aquired quite cheaply... $2,000 - $7,000 ? But the HP one has been out of production for a while so whilst that is the cheaper end - I suspect locating one may be tough.. the Xante is still available...

In terms of your old Agfa Accuset,any of these solutions will certainly remove the chemistry , and all the hassle of the maintenance... But both Laser printer & Polyester plate solutions are likely to be steps backwards in quality.
On the other hand, the Glunz & Jensen system will almost certainly improves the quality there too..

But, wrt to the Glunz & Jensen system... the "items that you need to consider..."

.. The Glunz & Jensen system uses a specialist diffused screening method called DEEDs (Dynamically Even Error Diffused Screening), this is a stochastic type of screen, and will look different to some legacy work you may have already printed using conventional screens.. the colour will be the same, and detail may even be better... but the screening does look different.... many people like it, but some don't...so I would advise, if you consider this unit ask the dealer or Glunz and Jensen for print samples and if you like what you see then get them to image one of your already printed jobs...

Other units to consider, may be second hand? But if your volume is so low, you probably need to avoid chemistry based systems, as the chemistry will go off before you have imaged enough plates.

I have seem the Kimosetter solution too, this uses a more robust polyester base, BUT - the image is applied by a Thermal printhead, against a wax type of print ribbon. Any large flat areas like pannels on invoices and halftones, will show the stepping in terms of the width of this ribbon (approx 3/4 inch). So, unless you stick to line work only - like coach or bus timetables, I doubt this will live up to your expectations.

If your budget does not enable the G&J solution, it would seem to me, that the suggestion made by "VladCanada" might be worth chewing over..

Good luck in your quest.:)
 
I did a little research on the HP5100 vs HP5200.

HP 5100 specs: Transparencies used in the printer must be able to withstand 400° F (205° C), the printer’s maximum temperature, for 0.1 second.

HP 5200 specs: Transparencies used in the printer must be able to withstand 200°C (392°F), which is the printer fusing temperature.

So, it looks like they lowered the fusing temperature by 5°C (8°F) and 400° F (205° C) is the magic number to look for in other printers.

Hurst is recommending the Okidata C9650. I need only monochrome.

Anyone know of a currently manufactured monochrome laser?
 
Hi "apjjr"

If you are attempting to print Laser Polyester Plates, the fusing temperature is important. But, you can ignore statements about transparencies.

Generally you put the Polyester material through on the highest fuser setting you can get the laser to hit, which with HP's has historically been HEAVY card, or HEAVY stock.

The temp sometimes remains the same, but he speed slows of the substrate as it passes through, thus giving you more heat on the substrate and fusing the toner in further for a longer run.

The only Laser still produced to do this task as far as I am aware, is Xante's. This is a FujiXerox engine, and whilst Xante still produce it, the engine manufacturer stoped a few years back... but Xante too massive last buy orders....

They also modify the controller to permit slower fusing speeds and higher fusing speeds.

Best wishes,

M
 
Go polyester! Metal is too expensive.
Xante: Products: SpeedSetter 300iL

Buy this. I have used it with multiple QM46 running impression lengths from 50 to >10,000. It is far more reliable than the Xante Platemaker (which I have also used, if you want to hear me rant about that hunk of junk, ask me to elaborate). Heidelberg themselves used (may still outside of the US) re-market this product. Save yourself a ton of headaches.
 
Ritter,
What goes wrong with the xante platemaker 5 that was so bad. I'm a low volume user of about 600 plates a year, 1 color and no high quality demands.
 
What is your average run length? We were using them mainly for envelopes, business card master imprinting, business cards and NCR form work on QM46 and Ryobi presses. The issue that killed it was toning (ink picking up where it shouldn't be picking up). In a run of say 500 envelopes with reflex in (Superior brand) by envelope 200 they were already turning the entire envelope blue. We changed chemicals and settings (changed the settings weekly) and then we added extra high-tech humidification in our already climate controlled, doors sealed with gaskets ultramodern prepress room (hell we even kept our server rack in there it was so clean and nice). Add in the cost of the toner and we just said to hell with it. Volume is not really a problem for the PlateMaker run length and quality are. We gave it a full-on 110% effort to make it work and assumed we were doing something wrong and it just proved us wrong again after again.
 
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We do a lot of jobs in the range of 500 to 3500. So, if I can get polyester to work, I'll be in good shape.

We are testing with a Gestetner(Ricoh) laser right now. It'll do 11x17 max, so it's just for testing. We clamp one edge of the plate and stick the trailing corners down with some Scotch 2 sided tape. I asked another experienced pressman about pressure and chemistry and he said:

"You will find that these laser plates are very forgiving regarding fount solution, they can be a little more fussy when it comes to "cheap" press inks, if chemical toning occurs, it is normally due to poor quality press inks.

Do not use any plate cleaners designed for Aluminum plates or solvent
chemistry on the plates as this will delete the toner.

Pressure - I would be amazed if any settings need to be changed.

TIP - You may find the plate has an overall tone caused by toner scatter from the laser printer. This will be observed on the press as "Picture Framing" a build-up of ink on the blanket, outside the paper area. The best method to prevent this is to use a wet cloth or sponge, and clean the plate with a small amount of household Ajax (or similar)."

We experienced "toning" on our first plate. My pressman is making a test with "Plate Sav*ur" from Burnishine products. He told me it looked like it remove all of the extra toner dust the laser leaves.

I'll post results later.

Do you still have your Xante Platemaker?
 
We resold it to the vendor who sold it us. I assume he resold it on the market as used. We replaced it with a Heidelberg Quicksetter 300 (no longer marketed?) which is a rebaged RIPit SpeedSetter (before Xante bought RIPit) with the added advantage/power of Heidelberg's MetaDimension RIP.

On the PlateMaker
The plates will stretch if stressed by the press operator (more so than chemical polyester developed plates). We did change pretty much everything except our ink (among the best available). Just about anything chemical wise seems to be able to damage the toner on the plates. One cool thing about the plate is that you can (or could when we ran them) patch holes or worn areas with a black sharpie. Agfa makes plates that will fit the PlateMaker as well as a few bargain vendors which are also worth a try.
 
The cheapest solution for you - just switch your process from the film to polyestep plate material AGFA SetPrint or Mitsubishi SilverPlate, using your Accuset. Use the same Processor but with another chemistry - Activator and Stabiliser.
Wanna save a penny - drain the chemistry daily in jugs and keep it closed.
You will save some plate material on clamps and gripper as well, instead of wasting leader and tail cut of film.

Vlad,

I'm still running a Accuset 1000. I only run film out of it right now. How does the "polyestep plate material AGFA SetPrint or Mitsubishi SilverPlate" process work? Can you or anyone else elaborate?
 
ginfay:

Polyester plates such as SetPrint use the process of diffusion transfer. Unexposed silver particles
migrate to the base during development, whilst the exposed areas gets washed away. The silver
is an oleophilic element, which attracts the ink. This is the same principle found in silver-based
plates such as LithoStar LAP-V.

Regards,
 
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Kimosetter is a good solution

Kimosetter is a good solution

We sell and service Kimosetters, I tell potiental customers to call our users, we have yet to take one back. They are very reliable. Take a look, it takes up a little more than space of a large desktop printer and needs no special chemistry.
 
Good technical explanation Steve. To put it in simple terms, the Poly Plates run through the AccuSet just like your film does with the exception of being negative-right reading. The silver image is used for the ink transfer. We can provide the service of the setup and calibration for you. Remember that if it is an AccuSet 1000 and not an AccuSet 1000W it will only run 4mil plates. You will need a separate processor for the Poly Plates unless you are no longer going to run film in which case you may be able to use your film processor for the Poly. This will depend on what processor you have to make sure it does not scratch the plates.
 
Inexpensive CTP

Inexpensive CTP

One of the best and inexpensive Direct to Plate Systems is the Kimosetter 340 or 410.
Chemical free system using a 5ml Poly plate. Spec for 5000 impressions. Most of my customers get anywhere from 3000 - 18000 impressions. Depending on how good the press is. But if your looking for something that produces above 100 line screens this is not for you. Plate cost are under $2.00 per plate. Comes with a Post level 3 Rip.
 

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