which Ctp is the best?

[anouarsurvive]

Hello,
I'm loocking for a CtP, but i really don't know how to make my decision.
I'm an offset printer, I have 4 Heidelberg machines and this will be my second CtP after the prosetter of heidelberg.
If somone can advise me, it'll be great.
thank you.

 

[macphenom]

Where is the button for Screen?

 

[SteveAgfa]

anouar:

That's an interesting poll - but the more significant question
is "what are your needs?" One size still does not fit all. Perhaps
you should start with your plate requirements - run length,
what line screen, UV inks, etc.

What's interesting with Heidelberg, Kodak
and Agfa - as that they've all had some
sort of relationship with Screen - perhaps
the most obvious omission from your list.
And, of course, Creo was acquired by Kodak.

Regards,

 

[gordo]

Hello,
I'm loocking for a CtP, but i really don't know how to make my decision.
I'm an offset printer, I have 4 Heidelberg machines and this will be my second CtP after the prosetter of heidelberg.
If somone can advise me, it'll be great.

I don't think your poll will help you (BTW there is no Creo ctp unless you are considering used).
I think you should ask yourself some questions and maybe make up a list of criteria that the CTP must fulfill.
Start with your HD Prosetter, why are you replacing it, where was it deficient that now makes you consider other vendor's offerings, is your competitive environment changing (e.g. going to finer screening), etc., etc.
Then you could look at such things as:
throughput/number of plates per hour required now and over the next 5 years
warranty period
service contract cost, length, coverage
imaging technology (accuracy, repeatability, consistency, max screening lpi/FM, temp compensation, what happens if laser failure occurs, remote diagnostics, remote service capability, etc.)
degree of automation
compatible plate choices/plate contract
existing workflow integration setup or change of workflow
parts and service availability in your area
cost of device
cost per delivered plate
etc.
etc.

I'm sure others will pile in (or you could hire a consultant)

gordo

my print blog here: Quality In Print

 

[Cory Smith]

There really isn't a "best" in my opinion.. the majority of the devices are all reliable, fast and make dots on plates anything you can ask for.

I'd look at how the service and support is for you area. If you have a good working relationship with Heidelberg it might be in your best interest to keep that intact. Where are techs located? When you do need a service call are they going to have to bring someone in from out of the area or do they have a local tech?

that's the way I looked at it when we purchased.

I do have to agree with macphenom however..screen makes great devices. I believe are OEM'd by fuji. Agfa and Heidelberg use to OEM them, not sure if they still do.

 

[marktonk]

For thermal, Heidelberg use to manufacture the Topsetter which was based on Screen technology, they did not OEM it. Now they manufacture their own design, the Suprasetter.

All of the points brought up are good points to review. Your printing needs will help determine what type of system will meet you needs.

Are you going to keep the Prosetter or replace it? If you determine you want to make the move from violet to thermal, and you do have automation on the Prosetter, it can be retrofitted to the same format Suprasetter 105 or 75. Keep in mind that the Prosetter has the tightest registration spec with a internal punch of any CtP with +/- 5 microns.

Regards,

Mark

 

[gordo]

Steve brings up a good issue,

If you end up looking at the same device (as could be the case with Screen) being offered by different vendors/dealers - Agfa, HD, Fuji, Screen, etc. then you may have to compare the depth of resources each vendor will be able to provide in helping you to extract maximum value from your investment in what otherwise would be the same imaging device. Effectively, in that case, the CtP device is made a commodity - which puts you in a stronger negotiating position.

best, gordo

 

[anouarsurvive]

Where is the button for Screen?

thank you all fr your replay.
yeah sur I forgot the screen buttom.

 

[anouarsurvive]

anouar:

That's an interesting poll - but the more significant question
is "what are your needs?" One size still does not fit all. Perhaps
you should start with your plate requirements - run length,
what line screen, UV inks, etc.

What's interesting with Heidelberg, Kodak
and Agfa - as that they've all had some
sort of relationship with Screen - perhaps
the most obvious omission from your list.
And, of course, Creo was acquired by Kodak.

Regards,

thank you for your replay,
my problem is that I'm open for all solution: I don't have specific needs.
I think that the importan difference between the Uv and argentic technology is the speed.
what do you mean with UV ink?

 

[anouarsurvive]

I don't think your poll will help you (BTW there is no Creo ctp unless you are considering used).
I think you should ask yourself some questions and maybe make up a list of criteria that the CTP must fulfill.
Start with your HD Prosetter, why are you replacing it, where was it deficient that now makes you consider other vendor's offerings, is your competitive environment changing (e.g. going to finer screening), etc., etc.
Then you could look at such things as:
throughput/number of plates per hour required now and over the next 5 years
warranty period
service contract cost, length, coverage
imaging technology (accuracy, repeatability, consistency, max screening lpi/FM, temp compensation, what happens if laser failure occurs, remote diagnostics, remote service capability, etc.)
degree of automation
compatible plate choices/plate contract
existing workflow integration setup or change of workflow
parts and service availability in your area
cost of device
cost per delivered plate
etc.
etc.

I'm sure others will pile in (or you could hire a consultant)

gordo

my print blog here: Quality In Print

I didn't know that there are no more new creo CTP sorry about that.
i'm not replacing My CtP just I need another one becouse I have a lot of work, so you can consider that I need a CtP with important throwput.
I'll install a JDF workflow, so one of my criteria is the software related with the Ctp: HD prinect is it good? I think that kodak have a good software which can integriet Jdf workflow better, right?
So i think that my criterias are:
the speed, the Jdf integration, the price.
I'm printing with 300 Dpi and I'm note using FM trame.
just a questin: do you think that if my CtP is producing an FM trame I'll be able to print it ? or I need a special printing machine?

 

[anouarsurvive]

There really isn't a "best" in my opinion.. the majority of the devices are all reliable, fast and make dots on plates anything you can ask for.

I'd look at how the service and support is for you area. If you have a good working relationship with Heidelberg it might be in your best interest to keep that intact. Where are techs located? When you do need a service call are they going to have to bring someone in from out of the area or do they have a local tech?

that's the way I looked at it when we purchased.

I do have to agree with macphenom however..screen makes great devices. I believe are OEM'd by fuji. Agfa and Heidelberg use to OEM them, not sure if they still do.

This is my really problem.
I m loocking for another CtP because f some probleme with the after sale service in my area (tunisia.)
this is why I'll not take a heidelberg.

 

[anouarsurvive]

For thermal, Heidelberg use to manufacture the Topsetter which was based on Screen technology, they did not OEM it. Now they manufacture their own design, the Suprasetter.

All of the points brought up are good points to review. Your printing needs will help determine what type of system will meet you needs.

Are you going to keep the Prosetter or replace it? If you determine you want to make the move from violet to thermal, and you do have automation on the Prosetter, it can be retrofitted to the same format Suprasetter 105 or 75. Keep in mind that the Prosetter has the tightest registration spec with a internal punch of any CtP with +/- 5 microns.

Regards,

Mark

your post is very good. thank you (all post are god )))
I'll keep my prosetter.
and I'don't understand "the real" difference between thermal and violet.
I have a basic prosetter not automated.
As I said my HD CtP is always brocken down, I don't know why.

 

[digiservice_it]

Hi,
I have 2 Trendsetter 800II Quantum and I think are the best machine. Why?
- Trendsetter is a very fast machine: Slow options make about 15 pph at 32"x44";
- I can make 8"x12" plates without any problems;
- The machine is very simply to use and to make maintenance issue;
- I made about 250 plates a day with each machine and I have no problem!!I can make: AMIGO Plates, Ampio Plates, HRL and XD Plates, Fuji PCE plates with 2 developer unit;
- I can make with some plates 20micron screening;
- Repatibility is excellent;
- I pay about € 8.000/year for each machine for the assistance.

I think is the best choice......................((((-;

Luca Lombardo
Digiservice sas
Via delle Petunie, 5/7 – Zona Industriale
70026 Modugno (BA)
Tel. 080 964 18 97 – 98
Cell 392 84 20 379
Digiservice sas - Bari - Service incisione lastre - stampe digitali - soluzioni dedicate per aziende grafiche
[email protected]
Digiservice ̬ membro di TAGA Italia РAssociazione Tecnici Arti Grafiche Italia РTAGA - Italia

--

 

[alarson]

Do you have to calibrate it? Simple test.

 

[anouarsurvive]

which is better the thermal or the violet technology?
coast, speed, quality of the print, coast of maintenance...

 

[KMGI Sales]

The Best CTP... well, there is no right or wrong answer to this question, other than simply what fits you best. What fits your workflow best... and what type of support you can receive in your area. How fast is that support if you need it, and how good and efficient are the technicians doing the work.

While putting the decision solely on service is not the ultimate way to go, it is a very important part of the equation. However its not the only reason to pick one CTP vs the other.

Most CTP manufacturers produce very good devices, From Agfa, to Fuji, to Screen, to Kodak, to ECRM, to Xante, to Heidleberg, to Alphaquest, to Krause...etc.. (sorry if I forgot any of you)

So making a poll of a select four only tells me you have an opinion on those four you wish for us to choose for you... again a bad idea having others choose for you....

Weigh you options, ask alot of questions, see what fits into your current workflow the best, and what makes you comfortable..

Again each manufacturer can tell you one thing or another about their devices, its ultimately up to you to make the right decision for you.

For instance if you ask me personally, I like ECRM for Violet and Screen for Thermal...but then again I am bias...

If I put my Bias to the side, I do like Kodak for Thermal, and I still like ECRM for Violet, although Agfa produces a very good Violet setter as well.

 

[KMGI Sales]

anouarsurvive -

That question is debateable as well. While years ago Violet costs many times more than Thermal, the costs have come down and are about even now on the plate side.
On the device side, again this is debateable, as it all depends on if your device is automated, or manual, how many working parts, the price of those parts, price of service outside of warranty, etc...

Speed I believe personally from what I have seen, the Violet setters are faster now, and will continue to get even faster as the Laser powers increase and the sensitivity of the violet plate gets even better.

Print quality - this is negliable as both Thermal and Violet produce good print quality results... however this can't truly be answered until we knew more about your print environment. Do you use standard inks or UV, what type of work do you do, high end commercial, or ?... etc..

 

[anouarsurvive]

anouarsurvive -

That question is debateable as well. While years ago Violet costs many times more than Thermal, the costs have come down and are about even now on the plate side.
On the device side, again this is debateable, as it all depends on if your device is automated, or manual, how many working parts, the price of those parts, price of service outside of warranty, etc...

Speed I believe personally from what I have seen, the Violet setters are faster now, and will continue to get even faster as the Laser powers increase and the sensitivity of the violet plate gets even better.

Print quality - this is negliable as both Thermal and Violet produce good print quality results... however this can't truly be answered until we knew more about your print environment. Do you use standard inks or UV, what type of work do you do, high end commercial, or ?... etc..

thank you very much for your replay.
If the quality is the same, and the speed is "the same" what's the differnce???
I'm looking fo an semi-automated machine (it exist in both thermal and violet), the capacity of the throwput doesn't matter becouse it will be the second one.
the after sale service is the same too.
I'm using standard Ink to produce some nice magazine for women and others big companys, I really need a good quality, the best.
Both are able to produce Fm trame?
If a take screen, will I need some other software like signaStation or it can Work with my signa station and my heidelberg workflow.

 

[KevinC@EFI]

I'm using standard Ink to produce some nice magazine for women and others big companys, I really need a good quality, the best.
Both are able to produce Fm trame?
If a take screen, will I need some other software like signaStation or it can Work with my signa station and my heidelberg workflow.

I've been trying to stay out of this conversation because of the obvious bias I would have being a Kodak marketing employee. However, given your statements quoted above, I would really push you towards a thermal solution, especially one with our SQUAREspot imaging technology.

Many systems "can do" FM screening when everything is perfect - but being able to do it isn't the same as being able to do it industrially- that is, day-in, day-out, repeatably, and without a lot of overhead to keep things in control. Especially when you get into 20-micron FM and lower, the Stability of the system makes-or-breaks the quality and cost-effectiveness. Our SQUAREspot system demonstrably has advantages here, helping quality and consistency, but also lowering your cost and overhead to implement and achieve the desired results.

10,000 dpi imaging makes a difference in how clean and repeatable the dot edges are, and how clean the transition from exposed-to-unexposed is. This gives the system orders of magnitude more latitude for the other variation throughout the production process.

I can send you some data and info on SQUAREspot if you like offline, but you should also check out some of our online resources such as:

Stability - Kodak's Graphic Communications Group

FYI - our CTP's can be driven by any workflow that can supply a 1-bit TIFF, so no problem on that front. We're one of the most open-systems suppliers left.

Kevin.

 

[SteveAgfa]

Kevin:
re:

<snip>
10,000 dpi imaging
<snip>

Isn't that really the size of the slit,
which is then dragged to fill the pixel?

Do you really have FM screens which
call for 1/4th of the pixel to be filled?
Wouldn't that be 2.5 micron FM?

Regardless of engine/plate capabilities,
if the pressroom can't hold a 2% dot at
175 lpi, then we can't even begin to
tackle 20/21 micron FM, let alone 10.

Regards,