Which PANTONE book?

[printdreamer]

Hi everyone,

I would like to buy some of PANTONE's color books, but I really don't know where to start from. I'm looking for a color guide for digital and litho press on different substrates.
I have visited the pantone website and I have found the FORMULA GUIDE COATED, UNCOATED, MATTE books and PANTONE ESSENTIALS containg the three books mentioned before plus COLOR BRIDGE COATED and 4-COLOR PROCESS COATED, UNCOATED.
As every of those products are indicated for design and print uses I wonder which one is really necessary for digital and litho printing.
What the 4 COLOR PROCESS is for? What is the difference between this and FORMULA GUIDE COATED, UNCOATED AND MATTE?
Is it really necessary to have COLOR BRIDGE? Personally I don't need Html color code but I don't know what to think about the conversion from solid to CMYK.
I will really appreciate if someone could give me some advice becouse I am totally confused. I wouldn't buy the wrong book and then cry for the money.
Thank you.

 

[Lukas Engqvist]

I find the Bridge one of the most usfull swatch books. It makes the discussion pantone vs CMYK easy, and also when choosing corporate colours it is wise to choose a colour that look similar in CMYK as in Pantone and RGB/HTML.
Note that many digital presses produce colours similar to CMYK-coated even on Uncoated substrates.

 

[Ritter]

Like Lukas suggested, get the bridge uncoated/coated it shows a CMYK build and the actual pantone color side by side. By far the most useful. I happen to have the entire display set with tear outs and the whole shebang. The only swatch-book I bother using is the bridge.

 

[printdreamer]

Hi Ritter and Lukas,

thank you very much for your quick reply. I was definetely wrong but I have always seen most of the printers and designe using the formula guide book, never bridge.
So if, for example, a client ask me to make a business card based on the logo's color I should use bridge by putting it next to the color so I can get the Pantone equivalent value? Shoul I buy both coated and uncoated?
Another question, curiosity this time, what the formula books are intented for then?
I thank you very much for your help.
Cheers

 

[Ritter]

The answer depends on your printing intent. I strongly advise designers not to use pantone colors in design work unless they intend to print in that color as conversion can lead to adverse results. A pantone bridge book however is a great way to see the CMYK build of a spot color you might be designing with (against my advice). It can also give you real world results for CMYK builds that otherwise you wouldn't be able to see until it hit a calibrated proofer or the press.

When you say "formula guides" I assume you are talking a swatch-book with mixing instructions oriented for press operators in order to custom mix inks into a pantone color. A print shop can order the ink from an ink company or if the run is small they can actually mix a few colors together and match the mix to the swatch book. This is a dying thing in my experience as small quantities of ink are easily obtained for reasonable prices. Other drivers away from this part of the craft are consistency in the run (say the press operator didn't do an excellent job mixing) and production managers not wanting to waste "press time" allowing press operators to mix ink.

Example: Pantone 5477
(5 pts Reflex Blue, 3 pts Yellow, 3 pts Black, 11 pts Tansparent White)
some these also have CMYK values next to that
(22.8, 13.6, 13.6, 50.0).

Yes these CMYK values should replicate the color but with a bridge book you get a sample of the pantone color and it's CMYK "equivalent" right next to it. Many designers would be amazed about how differently the "equivalent" is many times.

 

[printdreamer]

Hi Ritter,

my intent is just to reproduce exactly some colors when I go to print both digital and litho. When I have got a client asking for a precise color, should I show him the CMYK reference in Bridge Swatch?
I think this is the core of my problem. So many times I have try to get the nearest color but now I want to be sure that when I go to print I won't get a bad surprise!!!
Thanks again.

 

[gordo]

SNIP my intent is just to reproduce exactly some colors when I go to print both digital and litho. SNIP So many times I have try to get the nearest color but now I want to be sure that when I go to print I won't get a bad surprise!!!
Thanks again.

The only way to ensure that is to request a color atlas from your suppliers then you can cross match colors and find the appropriate formulae for a given color printed at different locations or on different devices.
More info here: Quality In Print: The Color Atlas - helping designers to specify color

best, gordon p

 

[Robert Fava]

Coulr matching using pantone and ISO standards

Coulr matching using pantone and ISO standards

Unless you are a manufacturer the only books most buyers will need is the FORMULA GUIDE COATED, UNCOATED, MATTE.
To ensure that the "right colour" is produced and assuming this is absolutely critical to a 98% match I would consider sourcing printers (be it litho or digital) who have colour management systems to an accredited systems such as ISO.

The colour management system ensures all parts of the process is calibrated to a central point of reference.

This will ensure the "best consistent " result for any colour matching when printing

 

[Lukas Engqvist]

Sorry to bring back to what I said, before.
A pressman printing with pantone will normally use a formula book, we don't have the bridge books at the presses. Note that many colours are very different wet to dry. The reason the pressman has the book is to make sure the ink was mixed appropriately. The bridge is not for the pressman. The pressman is matching densities anyway, and never had a customer complain when the logo/art, due to propper colour management, was closer to the formula swatch than the CMYK simulation.

The bridge is for a) the designer to have realistic expectations so that he does not design heavily relying on corporate identity on colours that are not reproducable in CMYK, or at least knowing that his disign will be different in CMYK.
b) the Sales rep to explain to the customer that disn't buy the bridge that it was not it was his unrealistic expectations than means that the loge/art deosn't look as it does in his formula coated.

The Formula swatchbook is to explain to customers that transparent white is another name for varnish, so a pastel colour mostly transparent white doesn't print so well on a black envelope

 

[gianotten]

Pantone Bridge and Euro version

Pantone Bridge and Euro version

Don't forget that the Bridge coated Guide is available in 2 different versions.
The regular one (used outside Europe) and the Bridge Guide Euro (to be sold in Europe).
Both are produced under different printing conditions.
The Euro Guide is based on ISO 12647-2. That's what Pantone states in the guide.
However, they add: "when applicable".
There are however differences between what ISO 12647-2 uses for TVI and Gray Balance.
And Pantone has a TVI with identical values for CMY and K. In ISO 12647-2, there is a difference in the curves for CMY and the curve for K.
All minor differences. Some 3% here, some 4% there. However, the total differences can be substantial.
The Pantone Guide Coated Euro is a nice tool. But with limitations.
It would be fair if Pantone would describe (in detail) the differences between ISO 12647-2 for coated (Fogra39) and the Pantone Guide Euro print specs.
Not for the average designer, but for prepress specialist and print salesman and technicians so they know how to handle difficult spot colors in CMYK.
And know why there are severe limitations.

 

[Lukas Engqvist]

That is probably a level two thing. If customers understand that printing flourescents and metalics is not doable in CMYK, then we at least have the ball rolling our way.

 

[michaelejahn]

only a percentage of the Pantone colors can be simulated in CMYK

only a percentage of the Pantone colors can be simulated in CMYK

Hi Ritter,

my intent is just to reproduce exactly some colors when I go to print both digital and litho. When I have got a client asking for a precise color, should I show him the CMYK reference in Bridge Swatch?
I think this is the core of my problem. So many times I have try to get the nearest color but now I want to be sure that when I go to print I won't get a bad surprise!!!
Thanks again.

Yes, you are getting the basic idea. Here are a few other things that are important when speaking to a customer about color matching a color in a Pantone fan book.

What you are using is a CMYK printing GUIDE. That is what they call it - a guide. Be sure you and your customers fully embrace that idea - it is not like a manufacturing engineering specification where it is accurate to some precise L*a*b* values like they do when they create car panels and they are using a single colorant on a single substrate with no variation in the process.

Pantone prints this guide using a far different process that you do, on a one of a kind printing press - and they print it on a very specific paper - both of these things will effect what the CMYK build looks like - for this reason, it is a rare thing indeed to get your press sheet to look identical to that Pantone swatch in a side by side comparison. Lighting - or the color temperature of the light used when viewing - also can change how the color is looks - you may find that in your press area that you have a nice match, but when the customer opens and views that same thing in their offices, the color shifts dramatically - metamerism is a tricky thing to grasp sometimes, but it is a fact of life - My friend Jim Raffel's blog post might help you get you head around this..

Golden Nugget #16 Matamerism & Color Management at JimRaffel.com

One thing you will notice in the Pantone color bridge book is that many of the CMYK build are quite different that the Pantone color - one of my favorite examples is Pantone 151 or more recently, Pantone Goe 13-1-6 C - the color of a Cheese Doodle - the CMYK build is no where near the spot color version - the CMYK simulation is dull and brownish compared to the bright saturated orange. Setting a customers expectation level is key.

Finally, many people discount this, but where two colors are within proximity to each other, colors seem to appear differently - Research Demonstration Images

Hope this helps !