Xerox V80 NCR marking Transfer Belt

[pippip]

Hi,

Running NCR on our V80 for the last 5 years and the last two times its damaged the transfer belt which is causing this mark. The first time it happened I'd took Xeroxs advice and put in a very old 2nd BTR to preserve my good one, something I'd never bothered with before. It marked like this and I assumed the 2nd BTR was maybe too far gone and caused the problem. They came and changed the belt and I continued on with the job and the new belt was marked after about x100 sheets.

This time I put in an old 2nd BTR but which was only slightly worn so nowhere near as bad as the previous one and the same thing happened. I managed to finish the job and called Xerox to replace the belt. They said they've had a number of callouts for the exact same issue blaming the NCR. I was running Giroform Digital CB & CF. I've previously run non-digtial ncr and although had feed issues has never caused this. The tech claims the NCR brands are just using lower grade NCR now just to make orders. Basically said if it continues happening they won't keep replacing belts. Recommended I get a black only machine. I don't do NCR enough to justify that.

Anyone else experiencing similar? I'll be seriously looking to Ricoh next year, do they suffer anything like this?

 

[ally170]

Hi,

Versant 3100, we run a lot of NCR. In fact, since we installed an Iridesse last year, it's been mostly NCR on the 3100 since then. The 2nd BTR does get trashed with a build-up of carbon from the NCR. I use an old one and if we need to run any other media I change it for a good one and it runs fine. In 5 years I can only remember 1 time where the primary transfer was damaged from running NCR and caused marking. Basically carbon builds up and runs back through the whole transfer process and marks are left. Mostly it's on the back of the sheet form the 2nd BTR.

This is why the Iridesse is a no-go with NCR, this was made very clear at purchase, so we won't be running it at all on the new machine.

We run Reacto NCR, and have done for many years now. Techs tell me other printers around here run different brands and they cause more issues, but I have no experience of this. Paper is becoming more of an issue with mills/manufacturers having to use whatever they have to produce product, this is not just in NCR but across all standard papers it seems.

 

[pippip]

Good to hear your V3100 handles it all most exclusively. So the condition of the 2nd BTR isn't the issue?

Wasn't aware NCR was a no go on Iridesse but suppose if you're using such an expensive machine for NCR somethings wrong anyway.

Actually I can get Reacto from another supplier so I think I'll order in a batch of that for the next run. Do they have a digital version of Reacto or is it all the same?
With normal Giroform I'll get feed problems after about 500 sheets of CB or CFB but CF actually cleans the feed rollers so I'll run them in sections when needed.

 

[ally170]

The condition of the second BTR does not seem to matter, in my experience, for printing NCR. I have seen it look like it's been rubbed with sandpaper, and yet it still prints NCR no issue. 95% of our NCR is B&W so it's not critical for colour or even coverage as it's text and a few lines mostly.

The reacto we run is offset stock, we used to run it all on litho when we had a press, but switched to digital when we got rid of it, and it hasn't caused major issue so we don't change what doesn't need changed.

It does chew the feed rollers in the paper bins, but we just keep a few sets in stock and switch when the jams start. Keep the NCR wrapped when not needed and it seems fine. The odd pack will cause hassle but it's not major.

I would run some uncoated sheets to clean rollers after a large run.

 

[TJPrinter]

The tech claims the NCR brands are just using lower grade NCR now just to make orders. Basically said if it continues happening they won't keep replacing belts. Recommended I get a black only machine. I don't do NCR enough to justify that.

Anyone else experiencing similar? I'll be seriously looking to Ricoh next year, do they suffer anything like this?

Well it could be the paper or it could be that Xerox is using inferior parts. Best way to tell is to use the ncr that is on the recommended media list and see what happens. Same problem then the tech would need to figure it out. I don't know who makes the Xerox brand ncr but I do know they don't make their own paper.

I don't have this problem on my V280 and I didn't have it on the V80 but I do have 2nd btr problems with coated paper. Xerox does recommend running uncoated sheets after running ncr like ally170 said. I'm using NCR Superior (Nekoosa Coated Products) if that matters.

Xerox has a steel roller for the 2nd btr unit and I'm trying to get that for mine but this seems to be either in testing or Xerox is keeping it a secret.

 

[SoggyWinter]

I don't have this issue with my V3100 running NCR branded media at a few thousand to 10,000 sheets per month.

 

[pippip]

Well it could be the paper or it could be that Xerox is using inferior parts. Best way to tell is to use the ncr that is on the recommended media list and see what happens. Same problem then the tech would need to figure it out. I don't know who makes the Xerox brand ncr but I do know they don't make their own paper.

I don't have this problem on my V280 and I didn't have it on the V80 but I do have 2nd btr problems with coated paper. Xerox does recommend running uncoated sheets after running ncr like ally170 said. I'm using NCR Superior (Nekoosa Coated Products) if that matters.

Xerox has a steel roller for the 2nd btr unit and I'm trying to get that for mine but this seems to be either in testing or Xerox is keeping it a secret.

I mentioned it to my paper rep and he knew the other printer I was referring to with the 4 belts. He's sent an email to the supplier to see what they say.

I'm not convinced its the NCR so I'm going to order a ream of Xerox NCR and test that for next job, even if it is double the price!

Interesting about metal btr roller, will keep an eye out for that. Was never an issue with the DC242/252/260 so why mess with it.

 

[MPG]

Hi,

Running NCR on our V80 for the last 5 years and the last two times its damaged the transfer belt which is causing this mark. The first time it happened I'd took Xeroxs advice and put in a very old 2nd BTR to preserve my good one, something I'd never bothered with before. It marked like this and I assumed the 2nd BTR was maybe too far gone and caused the problem. They came and changed the belt and I continued on with the job and the new belt was marked after about x100 sheets.

This time I put in an old 2nd BTR but which was only slightly worn so nowhere near as bad as the previous one and the same thing happened. I managed to finish the job and called Xerox to replace the belt. They said they've had a number of callouts for the exact same issue blaming the NCR. I was running Giroform Digital CB & CF. I've previously run non-digtial ncr and although had feed issues has never caused this. The tech claims the NCR brands are just using lower grade NCR now just to make orders. Basically said if it continues happening they won't keep replacing belts. Recommended I get a black only machine. I don't do NCR enough to justify that.

Anyone else experiencing similar? I'll be seriously looking to Ricoh next year, do they suffer anything like this?

View attachment 291271

Do you mind me asking if you ever get this resolved... We are currently having the same issue... : (

 

[SoggyWinter]

Do you mind me asking if you ever get this resolved... We are currently having the same issue... : (

If your 2nd BTR part number starts with 607, see if you can get one that starts with 859. The 607s are an older iteration that doesn't last as long, but for some reason are still getting shipped here and there. I got a couple this summer and they'd start making a mess within a week.

 

[MPG]

If your 2nd BTR part number starts with 607, see if you can get one that starts with 859. The 607s are an older iteration that doesn't last as long, but for some reason are still getting shipped here and there. I got a couple this summer and they'd start making a mess within a week.

Thanks so much for this buddy. I have just checked the BTR and its absolutley shredded on the side where im getting marks... very odd that its made a mess of the transfer belt though, as thats getting hard lines of toner forming on it and as a result its that thats the issue... im hoping it all stems back to the 2nd BTR though as thats an easy thing to keep an eye on.

Have you ever used the solid metal BTR rollers? I was wondering if they were worth a shot. : )

 

[pippip]

Do you mind me asking if you ever get this resolved... We are currently having the same issue... : (

It was the NCR causing our problem, I changed brands and never had the problem again.

 

[MPG]

It was the NCR causing our problem, I changed brands and never had the problem again.

do you mind me asking what brand you use now thats resolved the problem. : )

 

[pippip]

We had been using Giroform for years until this issue. We now use Reacto.

 

[MPG]

We used reacto standard grade for ages but have recently moved over to Reacto digital... What grade of reacto do you use?

 

[pippip]

Generally standard grade, apart from a flatter printed sheet with digital grade I don't really find any advantage.

 

[MPG]

Generally standard grade, apart from a flatter printed sheet with digital grade I don't really find any advantage.

i know what you mean... i cant help but wonder if the digital grade has done me no favous!

 

[TJPrinter]

Thanks so much for this buddy. I have just checked the BTR and its absolutley shredded on the side where im getting marks... very odd that its made a mess of the transfer belt though, as thats getting hard lines of toner forming on it and as a result its that thats the issue... im hoping it all stems back to the 2nd BTR though as thats an easy thing to keep an eye on.

Have you ever used the solid metal BTR rollers? I was wondering if they were worth a shot. : )

After some usage, it turns out that the metal roller is terrible with NCR. The coating from the NCR builds up on the metal roller very quickly. It can be cleaned off but that's a pain.

I go through a lot a BTR's and have several older ones on the shelf that will mark coated stock, so I just put one of the older ones in when I run NCR and it works fine.

 

[MPG]

Thanks for getting back to me mate. I have heard from elsewhere that the solid rollers are hard work when it comes to NCR...
If you dont mind me asking, roughly how much would it do before it got filthy (only if you can remember)

I dont mind cleaning it if i can see it, (as with the standard black roller i couldnt see how dirty and damagd it had become)

Thanks again for your support.

: )

 

[TJPrinter]

Thanks for getting back to me mate. I have heard from elsewhere that the solid rollers are hard work when it comes to NCR...
If you dont mind me asking, roughly how much would it do before it got filthy (only if you can remember)

I dont mind cleaning it if i can see it, (as with the standard black roller i couldnt see how dirty and damagd it had become)

Thanks again for your support.

: )

You can see the NCR coating stuck to the metal roller for sure. I don't remember how many sheets it took before the buildup happened but it wasn't in the thousands. The roller can be cleaned but the NCR coating basically gets baked onto the roller. Unfortunately, even though it's metal it can still be scratched, and that could cause markings on the back side of the sheets.

I'd say it's worth a try if you want to see what happens, but for me it's worked better using a different 2nd BTR. I can never make it past 60-70k clicks before the BTR starts marking the back of coated sheets so I have about 14 older BTR units sitting around that I can choose from to throw in when running envelopes or NCR.