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Advice from anyone who's used a Xerox 550 please? (alignment help required)

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  • #16
    Originally posted by PrintingInLincs View Post
    I will update this further later in more detail however i have told them that i want everything to do with tray 5 replacing. I am also told them I want refunding for having to use a trade printer to do flyers which this machine should be more thna capable of.

    I've thought it was us just being new to the industry but i no longer think that's the case & the amount of time & paper we're putting into this is ridiculous really.

    Is there a point in doing tray alignment whilst not using tray 5 to print it ?

    Alignment is off by 2mm on the leadign edge & that is with the x position at -2 as far as it can go.

    We're using 300gsm gloss lumi which we have to cut down to a3 from sra3 as the machine apparently cant do tray alignment with sra3.

    We can get the alignment "okay" for 250gsm but what is the point in that? It's not fit for purpose & it's expensive to say the least.

    Apologies if i'm blunt, I'm very frustrated with this machine. It shouldn't be this hard to get it to print in the same position on both sides.

    Karl
    I know it probably doesn't seem like it, but I think your asking a lot from this printer. 300gsm is its max capability, and your asking it to hold super tight tolerances. Also, if I'm not mistaken, 2mm is probably going to be within spec of the machines capabilities. Also, you should forget using tray 5. You need to use one of the Hi-Cap feeder trays (6&7) to get your best registration.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by PrintingInLincs View Post
      I will update this further later in more detail however i have told them that i want everything to do with tray 5 replacing. I am also told them I want refunding for having to use a trade printer to do flyers which this machine should be more thna capable of.

      I've thought it was us just being new to the industry but i no longer think that's the case & the amount of time & paper we're putting into this is ridiculous really.

      Is there a point in doing tray alignment whilst not using tray 5 to print it ?

      Alignment is off by 2mm on the leadign edge & that is with the x position at -2 as far as it can go.

      We're using 300gsm gloss lumi which we have to cut down to a3 from sra3 as the machine apparently cant do tray alignment with sra3.

      We can get the alignment "okay" for 250gsm but what is the point in that? It's not fit for purpose & it's expensive to say the least.

      Apologies if i'm blunt, I'm very frustrated with this machine. It shouldn't be this hard to get it to print in the same position on both sides.

      Karl
      For that type of machine, 2mm sounds pretty good. You may want to ask for the customer expectations document. My guess would be spec is probably 3mm per side, on an A4 lightweight sheet. On an SRA3 tolerance is probably double that.

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      • #18
        Yes after another engineer visit he has put on new paper grips onto tray 5 (probably not the technical name for them)

        He said the machine is operating within tolerance but did say registration was poor.

        Maybe my expectations are too high but when you're trying to put out flyers promoting a printing business i would say getting the alignment right is fairly important & we have spent a fortune printing duds so far which we have thrown away because the alignment wasn't on.

        I really do not want to print single sided or go to a trade printer but these are the considerations.

        Maybe we'll just start specialising in single sided whatever...I have even thought of just deliberately putting out flyers with poorly cut edges as a publicity stunt.

        Of course the idea was born out of desperation to an extent.

        Karl

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        • #19
          You still haven't said if the engineer is adjusting using the paper that you are using when in service mode or just using Xerox's idiot 11 x 17 or a3 alignment routines, and maybe not even setting it up for the different paper weights. To me that is what sounds like what is going on. For sure the 550 expectations are pretty low but I have had so-called engineers here that had pretty low knowledge of what it takes to align all sheets sizes and GSM's. I won't even let my regular engineer do service mode alignments unless I am here with him even though I have trained him pretty well because he doesn't really know what balance I need to set the global alignments and individual alignment for each GSM based lead edge registration or per tray side to side registration so that it will fall into the adjustment allowed in the paper catalog.

          Do you know if the engineer set the NVM lead edge registration for the range that included 300gsm? Or, just used Xerox's idiot 11 x 17 or a3 alignment routines and never even loaded 300gsm 11 x 17 or a3 in the alignment routine. Unless he actually used 300gsm 11 x 17 or a3 in the alignment routine it is not going to change the lead registration setting for 300gsm. It can be done that way if you load 11 x 17 or a3 300gsm but I always found it much easier to make that adjustment in the NVM values. By the way lead registration is not based on tray but is based on gsm if you didn't catch that from the previous two sentences.

          Keeping the alignment sensors clean is also very important and something you need to learn to do, if you hope to improve and maintain sheet to sheet registration.
          Last edited by DYP; 03-12-2018, 05:01 PM.

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          • #20
            I recall a thread a while ago before you bought this machine where you were told than becoming a printer is not as simple as buying some equipment and then selling print. The learning curve is huge as I think you are now realising! I've been in digital print for 22 years and I'm still learning!

            I think maybe you are expecting too much of this machine. Duplexing 300gsm is asking a lot from an entry level machine. You have already said 250gsm is fine, so I would suggest it's not the machine but your expectations which are causing the problem. Would manually duplexing 300gsm be too much of a hardship? We used to have to do this when we had our DC700 and we got on fine.

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            • #21
              We've stopped trying to manually duplex 300gsm currently, the alignment is never good enough and it just ends up where we have to throw it away & i'm the type to get obsessed over something and do little else which at this stage is not a good plan.

              DYP I believe the engineer used his magic settings however he said what we're epecting is at the limits of the machine.

              We are now completing jobs successfully now however none of them are on tray 5.

              I did get some print from a trade printer in frustraton, i was surprised that our print quality is much better than what they sent us & the paper they used looked like porridge & was very poor quality.

              We're supposed to use 5000 clicks a month but we're more like 300 currently....any good ideas how we can use up the clicks we get charged for anyway?

              I've been wondering if we could create something generic in order to create some stock for future sale so at least we have something for the clicks but the only thing i can think of are generic birthday cards or something similar.





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              • #22
                Originally posted by PrintingInLincs View Post

                We're supposed to use 5000 clicks a month but we're more like 300 currently....any good ideas how we can use up the clicks we get charged for anyway?

                I've been wondering if we could create something generic in order to create some stock for future sale so at least we have something for the clicks but the only thing i can think of are generic birthday cards or something similar.
                Oh no, you leased a printer to do 300 clicks a month? Your missing some 00 there right?

                If 300 clicks is the case you need to hit the road and sell printing.
                Last edited by DYP; 03-31-2018, 04:22 PM.

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                • #23
                  If you are paying for 5000 clicks a month but only doing 300 you should be offering some real cheap prints, flyers, business cards, whatever. Get that volume up. As for the machine, running it at max tolerances will never be good. We had issues with our old J75 running at it max and ended up having to replace it a year later not being satisfied with the machine (whole host of other issues but will not get into that). The problem you are having is you obviously do not want to spend money on a much better machine as your volumes are so low. If you were to splurge for a Versant 80 or 2100 you would find you can do what you are asking with ease, of course that comes with a much higher price tag and you obviously do not have the volume for it.

                  You do learn what your machine is capable and not capable of and you are learning that right now. If you are designing yourself you can design for the machine, make it more forgiving for 2 sided jobs when it comes to cutting. At that low volume I would be probably be outsourcing to a trade printer, their prices will probably be cheaper as you are paying out for clicks you are not even using right now. Of course you lose control doing this, but you are not laying out a large amount of cash for a better machine to do what you want to do.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by PrintingInLincs View Post
                    We've stopped trying to manually duplex 300gsm currently, the alignment is never good enough and it just ends up where we have to throw it away & i'm the type to get obsessed over something and do little else which at this stage is not a good plan.

                    DYP I believe the engineer used his magic settings however he said what we're epecting is at the limits of the machine.

                    We are now completing jobs successfully now however none of them are on tray 5.

                    I did get some print from a trade printer in frustraton, i was surprised that our print quality is much better than what they sent us & the paper they used looked like porridge & was very poor quality.

                    We're supposed to use 5000 clicks a month but we're more like 300 currently....any good ideas how we can use up the clicks we get charged for anyway?

                    I've been wondering if we could create something generic in order to create some stock for future sale so at least we have something for the clicks but the only thing i can think of are generic birthday cards or something similar.




                    Well you could do an EDDM postcard promoting your business with those extra clicks. Or some flyers. Or 2019 calendars (get a headstart?). Letterhead.

                    Or when you submit your meter reads you could "bank" your clicks, reporting that you ran 5000 but...not really running them. Of course, then you will have 10000 to catch up to the following month. But, no sense in throwing them away.

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