16-up Imposition

[jbbbarr]

"Actually stock has nothing to do with a dummy.. all a dummy does is give you the page placement, whether its tissue paper, book paper, blue paper, etc."

Not if they are assuming that they can do this on, let's say 70 or 80# offset, it will not work well at all. A 32 pg impo is rather dependent on the stock, you are right about the dummy I can make a dummy for anything, but the point I was trying to make is to stop any potential disasters.

 

[Ryan-AK]

I have some...

I have some...

Everyone else is correct Bindery is your go to person for all things related to folding and positioning. For marks talk to your pressman, my experience is each shop is slightly different. They all want crop marks, but how long and at what offset? Registration marks and a color bar are must haves as well, but again positioning can vary.

If you just need a starting point give me parent sheet size, trim size, and kind of press. I probably have one sitting in my collection that can get you in the right direction.

Oh and from Preps where is the file going? To Prinergy, Rage?

 

[rich apollo]

Actually stock has nothing to do with a dummy.. all a dummy does is give you the page placement, whether its tissue paper, book paper, blue paper, etc.

On a 32-page, saddle-stitched (or notch-bound) sig from a sheetfed press you're gonna' have to calculate bottling. A dummy from the actual stock would be necessary.

In a web environment, the sig will be split into ribbons, so bottling isn't an issue.

Josh never did specify the binding style or output conditions.

 

[suzyb1078]

Better Option than Preps

Better Option than Preps

My company uses a software called Imposal. It is AMAZING! We have had far better luck with it than Preps or Quite Imposing. It can make booklets, N-up and Step-n-repeat very easily. When you have multiple pages you need up it will figure out what needs to be on the front and on the back. This has saved me countless hours of work. I would recommend it to anyone. You can purchase it at www.presschecksoftware.com and if you have any questions about it let me know. Our company was able to test it prior to its release so I have been working with it for quite a long time now.

 

[Alois Senefelder]

Bottling ????

Bottling ????

Hello Mr. Rich Apollo, -- Bottling ????? may I suggest you "take more water" with IT !!!!


During 40 years of Web Offset Printing - I've printed millions of 16 page - 32 page Signatures without the aid of a "Ribbon Deck" folder, and had to take account of "Creep" and "Crows Feet" during the Folder Operation.

Regards, Alois

 

[CTPGal]

I'd also throw this out there too. You need to know if it will be saddle stitch, or perfect bind. Is it for web or for sheetfed. The outcome imposition is different for all of these. Preps is pretty good about letting you number however you need to, but start with that folding dummy. I'd first ask press how they are running it, and then go to bindery to see what their needs are, with that information, you can make your folding dummy up and transfer that into the Preps Template.

 

[rich apollo]

Hello Mr. Rich Apollo, -- Bottling ????? may I suggest you "take more water" with IT !!!!
During 40 years of Web Offset Printing - I've printed millions of 16 page - 32 page Signatures without the aid of a "Ribbon Deck" folder, and had to take account of "Creep" and "Crows Feet" during the Folder Operation.

I am but a lowly ink-worm...I pray that your example will lead me to Lithographic Enlightenment...

You run those 32-pagers on 80#?

 

[Alois Senefelder]

re 16 page

re 16 page

Hello Mr Apollo, 32 page Signature, ran "Collect" using 100 gsm Matt Art also closed head


Regards, Alois (Lord of The Stones) !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[rich apollo]

Doesn't running collect imply that the piece was two 16 pagers that nested, or stacked, at the folder? Or, if you have "2-around" cylinders, then a 32 page collect might be four 8-pagers, right? Not quite the same as a single 32-page signature from a sheetfed press.

100gsm would be roughly 65# text/book.

By the way, what do you mean when you say "also closed head"?

 

[Alois Senefelder]

Running Collect

Running Collect

Hello, Mr Rich Apollo, 1 plate cyl rev. = 32 pages A 4 size signature (210 x 297) mm

see - Schematics of Collect cylinder folder also Closed Head signature


Regards, Alois

 

[Alois Senefelder]

utilisation chart

utilisation chart

Hello, Mr. Rich Apollo, one more PDF !! - Press Utilisation Data


Again, my regards, Alois

 

[rich apollo]

Thanks, Alois. So, from the schematics, and the press utilization info, the result is two nested 16s that then go through a quarter-folder. The set-up you show is what I was calling "2-around" cylinders. One cylinder revolution yields basically two independent signatures; in your PDF the "outside section" (A) and "inside section" (B).

The imposition would look something like this, wouldn't it?

 

[jbbbarr]

Rich, this is the impo I used for the 32, this is the pb version. I would also adjust the shingling toward the head manually depending on the stock, ie 50# offset I would adjust the movement in the head direction .005, and this would really help the bindery with the critical folios. If it were a question I would run a real test and have the bindery try to fold, it's much cheaper to waste a bit of paper than an entire train load or two.

The person who stated that paper does not matter has either never tried to print on anything much heavier that 60# or did not have critical folios. Stock matters very much in this configuration, especially on the inside sig.

 

[michaelejahn]

Sorry, should have clarified.. I don't have the setup details for the press, so the question probably can't be answered here - and I can't fold down a mockup without knowing the press.

The question can be answered here, we just need more details - but lets face it, if you had all the details you need you could do this yourself.

 

[michaelejahn]

Hello Mr. Rich Apollo, -- Bottling ????? may I suggest you "take more water" with IT !!!!


During 40 years of Web Offset Printing - I've printed millions of 16 page - 32 page Signatures without the aid of a "Ribbon Deck" folder, and had to take account of "Creep" and "Crows Feet" during the Folder Operation.

Regards, Alois

At Alois,

Bottling - that's what we call it here.

Imposition in a raster image processor - US Patent 6411396 Claims

 

[Alois Senefelder]

re 16 page Impo.

re 16 page Impo.

Hello, Mr Rich Apollo,

Basically your "Impo" is OK, but on the Harris 845 press the lower Plate/Blanket Cylinders were rotated 180degrees from the upper Plate/Blanket Cylinders.


Regards, Alois

PDF - hopefully of interest ???

 

[rich apollo]

PDF - hopefully of interest ???

Always. You've got a heck of a library.