Anicolor printing issues

[Anton Pavlovich]

I can't make a photo today. Next week. But the naked eye is not visible, but the customer saw and complained to the director. Now they were given the task of getting rid of this effect. (Two photos. Reduced tacc with oil and without oil.)
p.s. Reduced tacc oil add 6%. dot field 10-90% is fine/

 

[wyagow]

I’m pretty sure that is not the cells showing up on the press sheet as they are to random in size and pattern. I have found that the anicolor press is not actually geared towards running pms (Pantone) inks. It’s been my experience that about half of the pms jobs I have ran on the anicolor need a double hit of ink to lay down properly on the sheet and obtain desired density match. Most of the time that requires one plate at 100% and a second plate of 50%. This allows you to lower your temps to a more desired range. Just another thought for you to think of. Best of luck.

 

[Alois Senefelder]

Hello Anton,

The problem looks like Paper Mottle, without changing anything on Press try printing different Paper Samples.

Next - hold a blank "Sheet of the Job Paper" up to the daylight and see if it looks cloudy view?

Have you checked the Roller settings?

Regards, Alois

 

[wyagow]

Or ink emulsified as well. I had a supervisor insisting on purchasing generic water form and pan rollers for my press 2-3 years ago to save money. I constantly had problems with emulsifying. Finally to prove a point I purchased with my own money 2 rollers (water form) from Heildelberg and my problem immediately went away. The composition of Heidelberg rollers is completely different than the generic even though the generic company said they make the same rollers for Heidelberg. Obviously that was not true. I have not had an issue with emulsifying yet. Hope this helped.

 

[Alois Senefelder]

Hello Anton,


What sequence are you printing............... KCMY ??

Also, make sure YOU are not running excessive "Damp" on Units prior to the Cyan.

A quick check for the correct Ink/Water Balance ..... Have a Press Crash Stop, check the Grip/Leading edge Plate for a 1 or 2mm wide even thin scum line across the Plate Width.


Regards, Alois

 

[Alois Senefelder]

Hello Anton,


In the Sheetfed/Web Offset Discussion, read the PDF I posted in the Topic ....Ink Density Uniformity ....... post #11


Regards, Alois

 

[Anton Pavlovich]

I’m pretty sure that is not the cells showing up on the press sheet as they are to random in size and pattern. I have found that the anicolor press is not actually geared towards running pms (Pantone) inks. It’s been my experience that about half of the pms jobs I have ran on the anicolor need a double hit of ink to lay down properly on the sheet and obtain desired density match. Most of the time that requires one plate at 100% and a second plate of 50%. This allows you to lower your temps to a more desired range. Just another thought for you to think of. Best of luck.

substrates are used very differently. cardboard from different manufacturers from Alaska to Bohai. Also different papers. Matte and glossy. And even breathable cardboard. And to them all this effect is noticeable.

I don't quite understand what that means "double hit". It means you printing spot colors (Pantone) from two printing units? First press unit 100% amount of ink, and second press unit 50% of the amount of ink?


Thanks for the advice


Гарного друку, Антон
Дякую за допомогу.

 

[Anton Pavlovich]

Or ink emulsified as well. I had a supervisor insisting on purchasing generic water form and pan rollers for my press 2-3 years ago to save money. I constantly had problems with emulsifying. Finally to prove a point I purchased with my own money 2 rollers (water form) from Heildelberg and my problem immediately went away. The composition of Heidelberg rollers is completely different than the generic even though the generic company said they make the same rollers for Heidelberg. Obviously that was not true. I have not had an issue with emulsifying yet. Hope this helped.

Very interesting thought.... "water form" is a roller skate plate cylinder fountain solution?
We have rollers for a fountain solution really is not from Heidelberg. Initially, this press was bay for UV ink. And the rollers there of other material. The company replaced them to print with oil ink. This is a very interesting thought.

Thank you very much. There is something to think about and what to try.

Good day and good printing
BS Anton

 

[Anton Pavlovich]

Hello, guys

Nothing helped. Installed rollers from Heidelberg and this trail from anilox has not changed. We and the guys at Huber Group have developed a new ink that satisfies us. But this problem does not change the spot color. This is visible in the add photo. (Magenta, Cyan, Spot color P-2727). On the second photo is a solid field (100%)

 

[Alois Senefelder]

Hello Anton,


"Nothing helped" ! ! this is no answer, I suggest you list all the steps you have taken to "Eliminate this problem"

1) A picture of the Print Control Strip 2) A larger picture of the area covered by the pictures you posted


Regards, Alois (Semi-redundant now)

 

[Anton Pavlovich]

Sorry, really not correct from me.
- First replaced the submersible fountain rollers with the original Heidelberg. (Didn't help)
- Then colleagues from Poland recommended to try their application in the fountain (buffer), they work on it. (foto add) But there is a very low pH 4.0-4.2 (It got a lot worse. The hydrophobic layer is damaged by high acidity, and plate stay very sensetyv. Foto add) We returned to Sapphira.
- On the transfer cylinder we had a hybrid blanket(oil and UV). We replaced it with a softer one and only for oil ink. (Didn't help)
- Then tried the blades of another manufacturer with a different angle of sharpening. (Foto add) Also tried the knees bothsharp. (Didn't help)
- We asked the Huber Group guys to help us. They created the ink process specifically for ours Anicolor. End thise halped. But the problem with spot colors remained.

 

[Anton Pavlovich]

Sorry to interfere, but if anyone has the ability to help clearly. If me and my boss come to your factory for a tour. we could talk, show samples of our problem alive. exchange of experience, more of your experience of course =) And we will bring you ethnic souvenirs from our country ;-)

 

[wyagow]

I don't know how much help I can be to you but I will give you a list of simple things to check. When I say double hit when running PMS spot color jobs I meant one plate solid and the other plate 50% screen on 2 units. This helps with color matching and ink laying flat and smooth on press sheet. This is because pantone spot color inks are not formulated to run on anilox roller. I would check your ink chamber blades. Are they installed correctly, not backwards, upside down etc. Refer to your operators manual that they are installed correctly in regards to blade bevel etc. Check your roller stripe from anilox roller to your ink form roller. On my press this stripe is approx 6-7 mm in the middle tapering to 5mm on the ends. Also check your ink form stripe to the plate. These 2 stripe settings have gone out of adjustment on my press a couple of times. Heidelberg has to come in and reset these as they do not want untrained personnel to touch them. Pull out all rollers in affected unit and start over by setting all adjustments very light and increasing to desired roller stripe setting according to your press manual. Make sure you reinstall rollers and check stripes in the correct order to operator manual instructions. Check stripes to plate again. I don't know how many rubber rollers you have but on my press I only have 4 per unit. 2 rollers are rider rollers that are tension by spring so there is no setting for them. That only leaves 2 rollers to set. Many times I have found that my problems can be fixed by checking and resetting these rollers and it only takes a few minutes. Good Luck!

 

[Anton Pavlovich]

I don't know how much help I can be to you but I will give you a list of simple things to check. When I say double hit when running PMS spot color jobs I meant one plate solid and the other plate 50% screen on 2 units. This helps with color matching and ink laying flat and smooth on press sheet. This is because pantone spot color inks are not formulated to run on anilox roller. I would check your ink chamber blades. Are they installed correctly, not backwards, upside down etc. Refer to your operators manual that they are installed correctly in regards to blade bevel etc. Check your roller stripe from anilox roller to your ink form roller. On my press this stripe is approx 6-7 mm in the middle tapering to 5mm on the ends. Also check your ink form stripe to the plate. These 2 stripe settings have gone out of adjustment on my press a couple of times. Heidelberg has to come in and reset these as they do not want untrained personnel to touch them. Pull out all rollers in affected unit and start over by setting all adjustments very light and increasing to desired roller stripe setting according to your press manual. Make sure you reinstall rollers and check stripes in the correct order to operator manual instructions. Check stripes to plate again. I don't know how many rubber rollers you have but on my press I only have 4 per unit. 2 rollers are rider rollers that are tension by spring so there is no setting for them. That only leaves 2 rollers to set. Many times I have found that my problems can be fixed by checking and resetting these rollers and it only takes a few minutes. Good Luck!

Dear Colleagues,

If analyzed and traced, this problem is independent of the unit, it depends on the viscosity of the ink. When I got a job and when I was shown a problem. The first thing I thought about was the plates. Then I checked the fountain solution. Then the blades and contact lines. The blades are made so that they can not be put otherwise. There are labels and there are grooves. Moving on the chain, I stopped at the viscosity of the ink. I cannot use one color for two units. Because I have a lot of jobs where four ink processes and two spot colors are applied. Or all six spot colors. Please tell me you have a similar track on a solid field? In my country (Ukraine), this is the first such press, and I have no one to compare it with.

 

[wyagow]

I'm out of ideas to help you. Also I'm not familiar dealing with a press that was converted from UV ink to oil ink either. I suggest you get a Heidelberg tech back in there that is trained to deal with these kind of problems to help you unitil the problem is remedied. Good Luck!

 

[Anton Pavlovich]

Dear Colleagues,
Another small question. what is the difference between the minimum ink supply and the maximum ink supply? Density.
In my case it looks like this: (I give an example of an ink supply 0% -50% -100% of anilox roller)
Black density 1.60-1.7-1.8
Cyan density 1.4-1.5-1.65
Magenta density 1.4-1.5-1.6
Yellow density 1.3-1.4-1.5

 

[wyagow]

Dear Colleagues,
Another small question. what is the difference between the minimum ink supply and the maximum ink supply? Density.
In my case it looks like this: (I give an example of an ink supply 0% -50% -100% of anilox roller)
Black density 1.60-1.7-1.8
Cyan density 1.4-1.5-1.65
Magenta density 1.4-1.5-1.6
Yellow density 1.3-1.4-1.5

I'm confused and going to wait on Alois to respond to this one!!

 

[moha taghian]

hello guys
aren't you active here any more?

 

[Anton Pavlovich]

hello guys
aren't you active here any more?

Hi,
I still come here sometimes.

 

[Alois Senefelder]

Hello Anton Pavlovich,

The dominant topic on Print Planet Forums nowadays deals with Digital Printing, very little is posted about
conventional printing such as Lithographic Printing.

Regards, Alois