Avantra 44 error 64

[Tony Blanco]

S A/B offcet parameter relates to problems when you load the film from A and B cassettes and you have some quite visible difference in the film placement behaviour (for example interpage gap changes and some (bottom) part of image cuts and appears on the next page).
In your case the problem is common for both cassettes - supply motor has to run just defined number of steps to advance the film into the drum and to stop first time waiting for the flappers to move down...
That number of steps - not DEC parameter and wrote down into the memory of MVCBAC U87 chip on DEC board.

Hi Vlad.

Today I worked on the Avantra, in fact this Board is one of that you described, but I exchanged the chip and it continued doing the same thing. I believe the chip is not located on U87, instead of, it's located on U57, because I check it out on Avantra CAD DEC Diagram, and in U87 is a soldered chip that seems a driver chip.

Well, the flappers descends, but after the film was entered inside the head punch, generally the film crashes against the block of the punches. The film advances fast, sometimes it crashes, but few times it can enter inside the punches, then the film stops, the flappers descend and generally they bend the film and the error 6 occurs. I think the Avantra is advancing more film than normal, because the film stops 4 inches more than normal before stops and the flappers descend but too late. I wonder if the jam wheel count the amount of film that advance or this info is located on the MVBackup Chip.

Thanks in advance.

Tony Blanco

 

[Armya Inc]

Finally your problem hasn't been solved yet! Error 6 Media Jam. Can it be Flapper and the film not reaching the rollers properly?

Back to my old comment: Can it be the flapper not guiding the film properly???????????????? Flappers move, agreed! but it doesn't mean both Flappers(or at least one) can guide the film properly. Align the Flappers(flapper).

 

[Tony Blanco]

I sent you the instructions. Check your e-mail.

Hi Farshad. I've tried to configurate the parameters you to sent me but the AvDiags were loaded them so quickly and then they didn't affect the values. On the other hand, I tried using other parameter files and they were loaded right. Then I configurated the parameters based on the values that you provided me but the problem continues. I think there is a parameter that tell to the Avantra how many film must to advance on drum before stop for waiting the flappers and then continues the way to the bridge, bt I am not sure.

Thanks in advance.

Tony Blanco

 

[Tony Blanco]

Back to my comment: Can it be the flapper not guiding the film properly???????????????? Flappers move, agreed! but it doesn't mean both Flappers(or at least one) can guide the film properly. Align the Flappers(flapper).

Farshad, based on your experience, when the film is loading inside the drum, I remember the film stops before touch the block of the head punches to wait the flappers, is it right?

Thanks in advance.

Tony Blanco

 

[Armya Inc]

Hi Farshad. I've tried to configurate the parameters you to sent me but the AvDiags were loaded them so quickly and then they didn't affect the values. On the other hand, I tried using other parameter files and they were loaded right. Then I configurated the parameters based on the values that you provided me but the problem continues. I think there is a parameter that tell to the Avantra how many film must to advance on drum before stop for waiting the flappers and then continues the way to the bridge, bt I am not sure.

Thanks in advance.

Tony Blanco

That is meant to be used with unidiag as mentioned before!

 

[Armya Inc]

Farshad, based on your experience, when the film is loading inside the drum, I remember the film stops before touch the block of the head punches to wait the flappers, is it right?

Thanks in advance.

Tony Blanco

Tony,
*you need to have the right DEC Parameters *to be down loaded. I prepared a file and sent it to you. Get that one right.
The film slows down, but it doesn't stop completely. Flapper position is very important at this stage and unfortunately many service engineers under estimate the importance of the flappers for helping to advance the film. Check the Flappers and align them if necessary.

 

[VladCanada]

Yes, you have to adjust flappers to move simultaneously, but the main reason of your problem is hidden in other place than flappers.
Which versions DEC DSP OCP you see on the screen during Avantra booting?
And you have DEC-209714-502,
I told you about revision 209746-502

 

[STSTech]

Tony,

VladCanada,and Farshad have given great tips. On a problem like this you need to go back to basics. We need to know what
version of software is loaded on the DEC Bd., what type of Avantra 44 is it,what is the part number on the big chip on the SDM bds. It's beginning to look like you have a miss match of software, or Dec bd.

STSTech

 

[Tony Blanco]

Hi all.

Thanks all for everything.

The info of this Avantra is the following:

AV44S OLP SN 2637
Jun 1996


+----------- Avantra Firmware Revisions -----------+
¦ DEC Firmware (K4/K1 FlashROM) : 54.32 ¦
¦ DSP Firmware (DEC-DSP FlashROM): 54.06 ¦
¦ OCP Firmware (OCP FlashROM) : 44.24 ¦
¦ OCP Download (OCP EEPROM) : 1.5 ¦
¦ Diagnostic Firmware (C9) : 20.04 ¦
¦ Correction Table Version-Type : 10.05-6 ¦
¦ Bridge/OLP (OLP FlashROM) : 34.07 ¦
¦ Press any key to continue ¦
+--------------------------------------------------+

ENGINE : Avantra44 , s/n 5088
REVS : 54.32, 54.06, 44.24, 1.5
: 20.04,10.05-6, 34.07

+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
¦Engine Config Word...A405C13F ¦
¦ ¦
¦Machine Type.........Avantra44 12 Mil Plate Rewind..DISABLED ¦
¦Head Punches.........INSTALLED New AV3/4 Nip Chngr.. --- ¦
¦Tail Punches.........INSTALLED ¦
¦Dual Spindles........INSTALLED Pager mode here!.....PAGE OUT ¦
¦Media Thickness......INSTALLED ¦
¦Media Width..........INSTALLED ¦
¦Wrong Reading Type...FAST SCAN ¦
¦Bridge-Up Sensor.....INSTALLED ¦
¦30k Spinner.......... --- ¦
¦Multiple Spot Flags.. --- ¦
¦APIS Buffer.......... --- ¦
¦Extra Supply Feed....INSTALLED ¦
¦Carr Home @Ea. Image.ENABLED ¦
¦Bridge Df Light Mode.DISABLED ¦
¦Humidifier...........INSTALLED ¦
¦Bridge/Buffer Board..INSTALLED ¦
¦Leakless Vacuum...... --- ¦
¦Real-Time Clock...... --- ¦
¦ ¦
¦ ¦
+----------------------------------------------------------------------+

I hope this info can help us to fix this problem.

Thanks in advance.

Tony Blanco

 

[Armya Inc]

Hi all.

Thanks all for everything.

The info of this Avantra is the following:

AV44S OLP SN 2637
Jun 1996


+----------- Avantra Firmware Revisions -----------+
¦ DEC Firmware (K4/K1 FlashROM) : 54.32 ¦
¦ DSP Firmware (DEC-DSP FlashROM): 54.06 ¦
¦ OCP Firmware (OCP FlashROM) : 44.24 ¦
¦ OCP Download (OCP EEPROM) : 1.5 ¦
¦ Diagnostic Firmware (C9) : 20.04 ¦
¦ Correction Table Version-Type : 10.05-6 ¦
¦ Bridge/OLP (OLP FlashROM) : 34.07 ¦
¦ Press any key to continue ¦
+--------------------------------------------------+

ENGINE : Avantra44 , s/n 5088
REVS : 54.32, 54.06, 44.24, 1.5
: 20.04,10.05-6, 34.07

+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
¦Engine Config Word...A405C13F ¦
¦ ¦
¦Machine Type.........Avantra44 12 Mil Plate Rewind..DISABLED ¦
¦Head Punches.........INSTALLED New AV3/4 Nip Chngr.. --- ¦
¦Tail Punches.........INSTALLED ¦
¦Dual Spindles........INSTALLED Pager mode here!.....PAGE OUT ¦
¦Media Thickness......INSTALLED ¦
¦Media Width..........INSTALLED ¦
¦Wrong Reading Type...FAST SCAN ¦
¦Bridge-Up Sensor.....INSTALLED ¦
¦30k Spinner.......... --- ¦
¦Multiple Spot Flags.. --- ¦
¦APIS Buffer.......... --- ¦
¦Extra Supply Feed....INSTALLED ¦
¦Carr Home @Ea. Image.ENABLED ¦
¦Bridge Df Light Mode.DISABLED ¦
¦Humidifier...........INSTALLED ¦
¦Bridge/Buffer Board..INSTALLED ¦
¦Leakless Vacuum...... --- ¦
¦Real-Time Clock...... --- ¦
¦ ¦
¦ ¦
+----------------------------------------------------------------------+

I hope this info can help us to fix this problem.

Thanks in advance.

Tony Blanco

Tony,

Software revision is just fine. I will have some comments on the engine configuration which isn't an important issue at this moment.


Avantra 36S/44S Software Release (8.0)
Mod Kit P/N 3120-501 PID AV44S-REV8.0SWKIT

 

[STSTech]

Tony,

OK. You got 8.0 software loaded on that DEC bd. This software will work on the following DEC bds. part numbers 2097140502,or 29960502. Check the SDM bds. firmware chips, they should end with a 5. I notice in your post where you had the DEC parameters
listed, some were wrong,also there was garble type. That may be a clue. I am going to send you the Dec parameters via PM
for software 8.0

STSTech

 

[STSTech]

Tony,

Follow up on my last reply. Some of your DEC media are incorrect, info I got from your message 23.The following info are the incorrect ones and what they should be set too.

Parameter Your Setting Correct setting
S-Feed Speed 6 120
S-Hold Current 25 6
SpdFwd Cur 50 30
TUAlgn Cur-n 12 128
TUAlgn Cur-W ----- 128 garble data on screenshot
TUWindCur-W ------ 75 Garble data on screen shot
TUAlgn CU-Pl ----- 128 Garble data on screen shot
TUWind Cu-Pl 65 75
Chech Your DEC Parameters in the Image/Focus/Bridge. The three that deal with feed are as followed with correct parameters

Vacuum control 1
1st ramp stepLgth 100
1stRamp Step Spd 10

Hope this is some help to you.


STSTech

 

[VladCanada]

... and use UniDiag or AvDiag in DOS mode (over cmd) to decrease software speed to download/rewrite parameters.
If STSTech idea did not help - pay attention on Supply spindle Motor, may be its time came to be replaced.

 

[Armya Inc]

Tony,

Follow up on my last reply. Some of your DEC media are incorrect, info I got from your message 23.The following info are the incorrect ones and what they should be set too.

Parameter Your Setting Correct setting
S-Feed Speed 6 120
S-Hold Current 25 6
SpdFwd Cur 50 30
TUAlgn Cur-n 12 128
TUAlgn Cur-W ----- 128 garble data on screenshot
TUWindCur-W ------ 75 Garble data on screen shot
TUAlgn CU-Pl ----- 128 Garble data on screen shot
TUWind Cu-Pl 65 75
Chech Your DEC Parameters in the Image/Focus/Bridge. The three that deal with feed are as followed with correct parameters

Vacuum control 1
1st ramp stepLgth 100
1stRamp Step Spd 10

Hope this is some help to you.


STSTech

One comment on this:
In case of no load for the supply motor ( no film ), the S-Feed
Speed parameter determines the speed of this motor. If media is loaded, the speed of the motor will slow down.
This speed variation is transmitted to the Supply SDM board by means of the supply motor encoder and will be compensated with a certain amount of the SFeed Current.
The value of the S-Feed Current will determine the amount of compensation to keep the speed of the supply motor at a certain level.For a given S-Feed Speed, a higher S-Feed Current will allow the supply motor
to move media faster than with a lower S-Feed Current.Obviously, if for a given S-feed Speed value, the speed of the supply motor has been obtained, a higher S-Feed Current would not further increase the speed of
the supply motor.This will give better media handling in the drum, causing registration problems. Increasing the Vacuum-OFF time will not fix the lifting of media.
The following changes have to be applied for better Media handling:
Change :S-Feed Speed : to 150 and S-Feed Current : to 36

 

[Tony Blanco]

... and use UniDiag or AvDiag in DOS mode (over cmd) to decrease software speed to download/rewrite parameters.
If STSTech idea did not help - pay attention on Supply spindle Motor, may be its time came to be replaced.

Dear Vlad you are right, I have a problem on spindles, but this problem occurred today.
The error 06 is generated like that:

http://youtu.be/HcVG4VGDLjQ

and today suddendly I had the following spindle error:

http://youtu.be/_raMw0h39v4

I guess the problem is originated by the spindles, I check them out, and there is a misalignment.
On next monday I will align the spindles to continue working on this Avantra. If someone has any suggestion or idea, please let me know.

Thanks in advance.

Tony Blanco

 

[Tony Blanco]

Tony,

Follow up on my last reply. Some of your DEC media are incorrect, info I got from your message 23.The following info are the incorrect ones and what they should be set too.

Parameter Your Setting Correct setting
S-Feed Speed 6 120
S-Hold Current 25 6
SpdFwd Cur 50 30
TUAlgn Cur-n 12 128
TUAlgn Cur-W ----- 128 garble data on screenshot
TUWindCur-W ------ 75 Garble data on screen shot
TUAlgn CU-Pl ----- 128 Garble data on screen shot
TUWind Cu-Pl 65 75
Chech Your DEC Parameters in the Image/Focus/Bridge. The three that deal with feed are as followed with correct parameters

Vacuum control 1
1st ramp stepLgth 100
1stRamp Step Spd 10

Hope this is some help to you.


STSTech

Dear STS TEch.

Where may I find this value: SpdFwd Cur 50 30
Because the names on DEC Parameters don't match with this or, at least, I couldn't find it.

Thanks in advance.

Tony Blanco

 

[Armya Inc]

Dear Vlad you are right, I have a problem on spindles, but this problem occurred today.
The error 06 is generated like that:

Error 06 on Avantra 44 - YouTube

and today suddendly I had the following spindle error:

Spindle fails - YouTube

I guess the problem is originated by the spindles, I check them out, and there is a misalignment.
On next monday I will align the spindles to continue working on this Avantra. If someone has any suggestion or idea, please let me know.

Thanks in advance.

Tony Blanco

The problem with the spindles occurred today?????????????? Why today?????????
This is my suggestion as you have asked for it: Can you finish one alignment/parameters/Wires/Connectors or whatever left over from the start of this mess first before going further and touching other parts like alignment of the spindle. You aren't working systematic and not even in Technician's level and the hole you are digging for yourself will be deeper and deeper as you will try something else. You won't be able to get out of this well. Your decision, your choice.
Based on the videos, I think the movement of the film was too fast and Flapper had a delay on the movement. Flapper didn't move smoothly.

 

[Tony Blanco]

Tony,

Vlad is right. STSTech is right. They are giving you Technical support, but you are the one who is solving the problem and you know what you have done. For heaven seek fix your DEC Machine Parameters first!!!!!! You have major problems with your parameters. Can you please confirm that first!

Hi Farshad, thanks for answering.
Today I wrote all the corrections on parameters suggested by you and the others. I know I have to continue checking the parameters, but I don't know where is located the "SpdFwd Cur" value, and the reason for I put the video is because I need feedback like you wrote, you saw the film is running faster than normal, but I wrote the values that you suggested but the film continues running fast. I need to find where I can to decrease the speed of the feed motor, today I tried with 80,90, 120 and 150 on S-Feed Spd but the speed was similar. However I have problems on spindles too. Thanks Farshad for your help, because I have bad parameter and I don't have to forget this.

Thanks.

Tony Blanco

 

[Armya Inc]

Dear Vlad you are right, I have a problem on spindles, but this problem occurred today.
The error 06 is generated like that:

Error 06 on Avantra 44 - YouTube

and today suddendly I had the following spindle error:

Spindle fails - YouTube

I guess the problem is originated by the spindles, I check them out, and there is a misalignment.
On next monday I will align the spindles to continue working on this Avantra. If someone has any suggestion or idea, please let me know.

Thanks in advance.

Tony Blanco

Vlad is right. STSTech is right. They are giving you Technical support, but you are the one who is solving the problem and you know what you have done. For heaven seek fix your DEC Machine Parameters first!!!!!! You have major problems with your parameters. You shouldn't be loading any film at all. Can you please confirm that first!

 

[Armya Inc]

Hi Farshad, thanks for answering.
Today I wrote all the corrections on parameters suggested by you and the others. I know I have to continue checking the parameters, but I don't know where is located the "SpdFwd Cur" value, and the reason for I put the video is because I need feedback like you wrote, you saw the film is running faster than normal, but I wrote the values that you suggested but the film continues running fast. I need to find where I can to decrease the speed of the feed motor, today I tried with 80,90, 120 and 150 on S-Feed Spd but the speed was similar. However I have problems on spindles too. Thanks Farshad for your help, because I have bad parameter and I don't have to forget this.

Thanks.
Tony Blanco

We are here to help you Tony. Please help yourself. I want you to get the job done. No hard feeling!!!
How can you notice the difference between 80,90,120 and 150? Are you looking at the film ? Do you think the speed is visible? Did you download the MPS file or entered the one STSTECH sent you? STSTECH Parameters were correct. Definitely, you couldn't enter the MPS file. It was all codes .When you downloaded your old parameters, did the film slowed down?