Canon IR 7105 or 7110vp

[printmgr]

Hi All,
I am new to the forum, but been in the business now for 11 yrs. We have a medium size print shop and run around 900K (B&W) and only 20K per month color.
We have (2) Ricoh Aficio 2090's that we seem to call service on quite a bit (3 times per week). We are looking at replacing the Ricoh devices with the Canon IR7105's as they are approaching 3 years old.

Is this volume (900K) to high for these type of devices or should we be looking at more of the Canon 7110vp type machine?

Thanks!

 

[artpost]

You mentioned that you are running 900K per month, would that be about 450K per month on each Ricoh device???

What is the overall meter read on these devices?

Since the 2090, Ricoh introduced two more HV models, with the later models they incorporated some of the Hitachi technology.

In my experience you if you are producing 450K per month, you are running these (Ricoh) systems at or around maximum monthly volume.

 

[artpost]

I think the 450K per month if that is the actual volume, you would even be running the Canons hard. You are basically trading manufacturers. New Ricoh or new Canon will run much better. consider 36 month lease only, upgrade in month 30. Also consider 3 90ppms instead of 2 105's

http://www.mfpsolutions.blogspot.com

 

[ambperera]

My friend take a look at the Xerox 700... you´ll be amazed. Back to back registration + - 1mm... 70ppm, 2400x2400dpi... just great. Love it.

 

[Craig]

My friend take a look at the Xerox 700... you´ll be amazed. Back to back registration + - 1mm... 70ppm, 2400x2400dpi... just great. Love it.

They are replacing black and white machines not color.

Have you looked at the MP series from Ricoh, my MP9000 has almost 10,000,000 in just over 2-1/2 years and I average about 3 calls a month give or take.

 

[printmgr]

Our volume is split right around 450K per month on each machine. Our meter reads are both around 13,000,000 each. They are probably ready to retire. I wouild like to run (3) of these devices, but space is an issue...

 

[UberTech]

Not sure how someone could come to the conclusion that 900k b&w per month equates to a DC700.

If room is an issue maybe buy 1 machine that is twice as fast like the current xerox\Oce offerings.

 

[PineyBob]

Not sure how someone could come to the conclusion that 900k b&w per month equates to a DC700.

If room is an issue maybe buy 1 machine that is twice as fast like the current xerox\Oce offerings.

The IR 7105 is another of the what I call "Fast Plastic" machines. If your Volume is what it is now you'll likely not last out the lease on these devices.

Perhaps someone in the know can recall the maximum duty cycle of the 7105 print engine. IIRC it's 12 Million which works out to end of duty cycle in roughly 48 months assuming volume doesn't grow.

I'm not sure what your answer is but I'm pretty sure it isn't 2 7105's. One good thing about the 7105 is the in-line perfect bound book maker. Unless of course you don't sell that type of work LOL.

Just as a side note the Japanese Manufacturers are real cagey and evasive about disclosing how long their high volume engines are designed to last and unless you know a tech really well and can get the REAL information BE CAREFUL.

 

[printmgr]

Hi Guys,
I went an saw a demo on the Konica-Minolta Pro 1050e. This seems like a sweet machine. The sales rep said they have placements in environments up to 1.3-1.5 million per month... The price for one of these is about the price of two of the Canon iR7105's...

Anyone have any advice of this model?

 

[artpost]

My advise, is to get the name of the users that are running the 1.3 million a month from sales person and go pay a visit to thier shop. PERIOD!

This is a major investment for you and your company, also try and keep the lease at 48 months or less.

Print4Pay Hotel

 

[PineyBob]

I've heard the K-M Claim of 1.3 to 1.5 Million per month. Canon can cite customers running those volumes as well.

The question is "For how long". The Japanese are very secretive as to what the true volume over the life of the engine.

If you can get even a glimmer of a hint as to the actual lifetime duty cycle is and you don't mind the prospect of burning one up in 12 to 18 months and have budgeted forthat, then it might work with the iR7105 or K-M1050. I just wouldn't do it.

 

[Craig]

If you have a good dealer you can get them to lock your click charges in. I was guaranteed 20MM or 5 years which ever comes first (in writing of course). If the machine tanks at 15MM, I'll get a new box, not like for like. This may help with the duty cycle issue.

 

[PineyBob]

If you have a good dealer you can get them to lock your click charges in. I was guaranteed 20MM or 5 years which ever comes first (in writing of course). If the machine tanks at 15MM, I'll get a new box, not like for like. This may help with the duty cycle issue.

Craig,

But in fairness to others I think you should point out that your Canon Dealer is the Largest independent dealer in the United States and one of less than a dozen authorized to sell the iR7110. So for them doing the kind of deal you mentioned on a 7105 is a very very safe bet.

If one could replicate the deal you spoke of then I'd say go for it. Another consideration are the two "Little Brothers" of the 7105, the 7086 or 7095. I don't recall which one but Canon was having trouble moving one of them and they were almost half price of the 7105. With your click deal you could buy two and get good production and some redundancy at a good price. Just a thought.

 

[printmgr]

Guys,
Just to reiterate. We are probably getting (2) machines. Probably two Canon iR7105's or maybe two 7095's. The only way we would go with one machine is if we went with the KM...
Personally, I don't think we will go with the KM. With all of the service calls we've had, I can't risk being down, so the redundancy is nice. The volume will be split 400-450K per month, per machine on a 36 month lease.

We have lots of calls, but we love the service tech's. They are usually always here in 3 hrs...

Thanks for all of the comments!

 

[PineyBob]

Guys,
Just to reiterate. We are probably getting (2) machines. Probably two Canon iR7105's or maybe two 7095's. The only way we would go with one machine is if we went with the KM...
Personally, I don't think we will go with the KM. With all of the service calls we've had, I can't risk being down, so the redundancy is nice. The volume will be split 400-450K per month, per machine on a 36 month lease.

We have lots of calls, but we love the service tech's. They are usually always here in 3 hrs...

Thanks for all of the comments!

Just curious as to your plans for a Front End solution? Or is it all copy work?

If it's all print the before you jump into the standard Fiery RIP, check out the EFI MicroPress with the following caveat. If the dealer doesn't have a MicroPress installed in the field, don't you be the first one unless you're a very patient fellow.

Otherwise, it's worth a look and for some environments it's a real strong solution.

 

[printmgr]

Pineybob,
It's wierd; 95% is COPY volume? We have print/scan controllers on both of our Ricoh's but never really use them, except for a few jobs per month...

For color jobs, we have a Canon IRC5185 with C-2 fiery controller. This currently serves our color needs, but we've taken a look at the Canon C-1 and imagePRESS 6000vp, but can't justify it at this time...

I know some people who run TR Systems Micro-Press with mixed results...

 

[PineyBob]

Pineybob,
.

I know some people who run TR Systems Micro-Press with mixed results...

The product has been cleaned up alot since the T/R days. EFI bought them a few years back and it's a much cleaner solution now.

If you're doing copy work just get one 7105 with the base Canon Controller and save a few bucks.

 

[Craig]

Craig,

But in fairness to others I think you should point out that your Canon Dealer is the Largest independent dealer in the United States and one of less than a dozen authorized to sell the iR7110. So for them doing the kind of deal you mentioned on a 7105 is a very very safe bet.

If one could replicate the deal you spoke of then I'd say go for it. Another consideration are the two "Little Brothers" of the 7105, the 7086 or 7095. I don't recall which one but Canon was having trouble moving one of them and they were almost half price of the 7105. With your click deal you could buy two and get good production and some redundancy at a good price. Just a thought.

My agreement was NOT with Canon, or Gordon Flesch, it was with MT Business Technologies and it was for a Ricoh MP9000. I will not use Canon again.

 

[PineyBob]

My agreement was NOT with Canon, or Gordon Flesch, it was with MT Business Technologies and it was for a Ricoh MP9000. I will not use Canon again.

This is a bot off topic but what are your thoughts on Xerox/Global buying Com Doc?

Sorry I thought you were referring to Canon, My Bad.

 

[kevneto]

We have 2 IR105's (bacsically same machine as the 7105) and if you are running just regular 24/60 text stock you could probably push the 7105's 450K a month. We did it on the 105's and had service out about 4-5 times a month

We have a 7150vp which is a completely different animal. It is a Heldelberg engine and it is a iron beast! We only run 600-700k a month, but we run heavy, glossy preprinted, perfed, scored, and thick card stocks through it and it just plows right through the jobs. Granted, we do a bit more maintenance with what we run, but we punish this machine. If you are doing light text stock, you could run that thing forever. It probably won't blink at 900K a month.

The price tag for the 7110vp-7150vp is pretty hefty, also. But it's a machine that you'll have for years.

Food for thought.