Creative Cloud

[Hopkins Printing]

I recently spent some time reading the FAQ page on Adobe's website about the Creative Cloud and have a concern:

It seems that if someone purchases a Creative Cloud subscription, the subscription includes access to all Creative Suite software. Through the cloud, a user is able to download what they need and install it as usual. Now, if said user decides to let their subscription expire, any installed software will eventually cease to function. Is this true? If so, I can't imagine end users would want to adopt this? I mean, it's nice that Adobe is making all their Creative Suite software available for a lower price than a boxed copy retails for but if they choose not to renew, they lose the ability to use the software they've already invested money in? What does a user have to show for their $800+ per seat purchase? I might understand if the software would continue to function BUT just wouldn't get the benefit of any new features/bug fixes if they allowed their subscription to expire. It seems that users will now purchase a LEASE to USE Adobe software instead of buying it???

Off the subject, a reliable source has told me that boxed copies of Creative Suite will be pulled from shelves soon and that there won't be a CS7 because it's being replaced with Creative Cloud? Is this true?

Do any others on here have any experience, insights, opinions, or info about all this??? I must say this is rather disconcerting if all this is true.

 

[dabob]

When I read the info on Creative Cloud Complete I see a $49.99 per month with an annual commitment. Seems to me thats about a $600 dollar per seat per year . .. and its a subscription not a license - if you subscribe to netflix and stop paying the videos stop, same as a magazine or a subscription to a stock photo/art site. I subscribed to the MUSE software and got a license to the Suite. Personally I like to have the license . . . but if thats the only way adobe is going to distribute in the future I guess all we can so is complain about it just like we complain about the price of gas . . .

 

[Hopkins Printing]

I just got off the phone with an Adobe rep. She confirmed what I stated in my post. If you stop paying, the software will eventually cease to function. She also indicated that Adobe HQ has yet to decide whether there will be a CS7 and then if there will be a non-cloud version available.

They are offering customers who are current on their Adobe software a $600 per seat subscription fee for the first year but then that goes up to around $800 per seat for the second year.

 

[rich apollo]

Seems that since Adobe has an unassailable market advantage, they're gonna' find a way to lose it.

 

[Hopkins Printing]

According to the rep, there are approximately 1 million cloud users worldwide. For me though, this will effectively more than double my costs over two years (compared to their previous 18-24 release cycle between Creative Suite versions) and now I won't have anything to show for my investment if I decide not to renew my subscription.

 

[GeorgeHB]

These software companies act more and more like the crack dealers on the street corner!

 

[chevalier]

This is like complaining about the price of petroleum...

You wouldn't refuse to buy ink/toner/paper/water/electricity/gas/petroleum/etc. because the price varies month to month and the vendor will only sell you 1 month allotments would you?

You're going to have to start treating software as a consumable rather than equipment. The old way is dying fast and the sooner this is accepted the better. There are benefits and detriments to the new way but love it or hate it Adobe has a virtual monopoly and this is the direction they are going. If Adobe abuses their monopoly position too much alternatives will show up.

Of course we could attempt to regulate the crap out of it and put a commissions utility review board in place. < s a r c a s m > That works really well for sewer, gas, water and electricity in my city... < / s a r c a s m >

 

[M&M Displays]

Its a love hate with Adobe, with have up to CS6. I use CS4 AI for 99% of my work. Its seems to crap out less than 5 or 6. We also see very little difference between 4,5 and 6. Yes Adobe is like crack.......sort of. I still wish they would use some of the things Freehand had

 

[dabob]

I don't see all the arguments ringing true . . my take on the release cycles (from wickipedia) at CS1 - Sept 2003 - CS2 April 2005 (19 months) - CS3 march 2007(23 months) - CS4 Sept 2008 (18 months) CS5 April 2010 (19 months) CS6 - June 2011 14 months - about 19 months on the average . . . at 29/month for the first year for current users = 360 + 50/month 2nd year =600 so average cost over 2 years 960/2=480.00 . . that seems to me to be less expensive than I recall upgrading every version was (As I recall it was about 550-600 per upgrade cycle for the license).

I haven't see any where that they are going to stop selling the license version (I do have a question out to a friend who is a team leader at adobe but haven't heard back yet - will keep you posted if I do) but as a print service provider I have found that as soon as they put out an upgrade we needed to get it since,sure as the sun shines, next week a customer will be bringing in a file developed in the newest version.

I have an annual subscription to Lynda.com at 212 bucks a year -- I don't use it every month but boy is it a great resource and I wouldn't trade it for nothing. But I buy my cars rather than leasing them.

This is just another cost of doing business . . . and seriously imho when you compare it to the cost of paper, ink, plates and repairs has the cost for staying current really risen much more that the other costs???

 

[almaink]

It's gotten to the point where these CS updates do nothing for print anymore, they just add features for lazy designers, web, and pub production. So bloated I spend more time trying to turn new things off and trying to figure out WTF the designer did that doesn't want to, trap, or even rip, than I ever did in the past. I'm still doing new in house design in CS3 as IMO it was the last version that was serviceable and I don't ever see our shop going to this subscription thing. We will ask for supplied PDF's before that happens.

 

[M&M Displays]

It's gotten to the point where these CS updates do nothing for print anymore, they just add features for lazy designers, web, and pub production. So bloated I spend more time trying to turn new things off and trying to figure out WTF the designer did that doesn't want to, trap, or even rip, than I ever did in the past. I'm still doing new in house design in CS3 as IMO it was the last version that was serviceable and I don't ever see our shop going to this subscription thing. We will ask for supplied PDF's before that happens.

Nice to see theirs at least one other person out there with my same thoughts

 

[chevalier]

A few additional thoughts...

What are you going to do when your local computer doesn't do any of the processing anymore and these apps truly run in the cloud? Holding out as long as possible is only going to make the transition to a subscription model even more painful for you. Your legacy files may not even be readable at that point. Have you forgotten the pain of going from PageMaker/Quark to InDesign? I've seen InDesign CS3 files have all kinds of issues pop up when opened in CS6. This software released in 2007 is almost 6 years old -ANCIENT by software standards. The original iPhone came out in 2007. Are you still using that too?

I'm not a big fan of Adobe and I loathe their monopoly status. However, I think many of you don't understand what it takes to develop software and keep that software going and going and going and going and going and going. Processors, graphics cards, and other hardware vendors constantly improve things which requires software to adapt to it. Apple and Microsoft update their operating systems to work with new hardware. Then the software that runs within those operating systems have to adapt. This is MILLIONS/BILLIONS of lines of code that have been compiled over decades. Sometimes a complete rewrite is needed. In version 30.0 you'll also need to include legacy file support so that your users can open that document created in version 1.0. This is "the bloat" you talk about. This is one of the central business reasons why the "cloud" model is being adapted - you standardize/eliminate the operating system variable and eliminate millions of hardware configurations.

 

[M&M Displays]

I agree to most of your points.........I still have to like it LOL

 

[Hopkins Printing]

Chevalier, although your point is taken, there are a few things that I need to point out:

1. Going to the "cloud" WILL more than double my costs over two years. $600/seat for the first year and $800/seat for the second year (these were the prices quoted to me). I have 5 seats, sooooo, $3,000 for the first year and $4,000 for the second year. That's $7,000 for two years. The cost of my last upgrade for 5 seats? Not quite $3000.

2. You say that because of hardware considerations, the "cloud" model is being adapted to standardize/eliminate the OS variable and hardware configurations. That couldn't be further from the truth. The software is still downloaded, installed, and run on the local machine. OS and hardware considerations are and will still be a variable. For them to call it a "cloud" is a bit of a stretch in my opinion. It does require the "cloud" to keep your license in check but that's just an internet connection and you do need the "cloud" to download the software and there are some online services.....

Ultimately, my customers dictate what we do so I have no choice but to adapt to the "cloud".

 

[chevalier]

Going to the "cloud" WILL more than double my costs over two years. $600/seat for the first year and $800/seat for the second year (these were the prices quoted to me). I have 5 seats, sooooo, $3,000 for the first year and $4,000 for the second year. That's $7,000 for two years. The cost of my last upgrade for 5 seats? Not quite $3000.

I get the economics of the argument. I understand that this is a significant increase in costs. Costs that will have to be shouldered and passed down. You have to buy/sell/price what is best for your business.

You say that because of hardware considerations, the "cloud" model is being adapted to standardize/eliminate the OS variable and hardware configurations. That couldn't be further from the truth. The software is still downloaded, installed, and run on the local machine. OS and hardware considerations are and will still be a variable. For them to call it a "cloud" is a bit of a stretch in my opinion. It does require the "cloud" to keep your license in check but that's just an internet connection and you do need the "cloud" to download the software and there are some online services.....

You are absolutely correct CS6 is not a true cloud application. It's even a stretch to call it proto-cloud really. However, I think it is safe to say that the CS will eventually become a completely cloud based application like Google Docs, Microsoft Office365, etc.

TBH I suspect that many competing and new companies will beat Adobe to the punch "in the cloud" and will eat away at and potentially destroy the Adobe monopoly position. Adobe is notoriously lethargic about rewriting software for platform changes. Observe how long it took for them to rewrite Photoshop and Illustrator for 64bit.

 

[Hopkins Printing]

Here's an interesting question:

According to the Adobe rep I spoke with, the cloud version of Photoshop CS6 already has several new features that the non-cloud version doesn't (or ever will?) have. So let's assume that they add some additional features to InDesign or Illustrator.

At what point will opening an InDesign or Illustrator (Cloud) CS6 file in the non-cloud version cause said file to look different because the non-cloud version is missing the additional features of the cloud version???

Will the non-cloud version throw up a warning???

 

[chevalier]

Interesting question. I figure they will likely offer a 6.5 type update at some point bringing boxed copy customers up to date at a certain cost (I'd bet its damn near the exact cost it would have been a subscriber to begin with). So far the subscription based improvements are not core functions just nice things that have been traditionally solved by plugins from third parties.

Now THIS story about Microsoft Office licensing practices is particularly interesting/scary for those who want their boxed copy.

 

[gordo]

Here's what the Adobe CEO has to say about the pricing:
LiveLeak.com - Adobe CEO desperately tries to avoid answering a simple question

Best, gordo

 

[chevalier]

Ah, Gordo beat me to it. After watching that I really hope 'the internets' and small developers smash this monopoly to bits.

I suspect that many competing and new companies will beat Adobe to the punch "in the cloud" and will eat away at and potentially destroy the Adobe monopoly position. Adobe is notoriously lethargic about rewriting software for platform changes. Observe how long it took for them to rewrite Photoshop and Illustrator for 64bit.

 

[Jackie]

Oh my, this does not look good on so many levels. The CEO's complete lack of clarity is scary, come over here, I have a great deal on some land in South Florida. Don't mind the gators . . .