ECRM Mako 46 have a problem
- Thread starter Aristide
- Start date
spapa
Member
a) there is a posibility of laser SOL sensor error (the sensor that checks the beggining of the "film" - actualy is the Start Of scan Line).
This sensor should be cleaned (left front side, above the knife module) with alchohol.
This can be done by you.
If this didn't solve the problem... (plan b)
b) you should do a spinner motor check (from the diagnostics menu).
(menu, diagnostics, spinner test, start test, ... if I remember correctly, it is described in user manual). You could post the results displayed here to tell you if the spinner motor is not working propertly (cost to replace a faulty motor, is huge).
To be sure if motor is faulty, and not the motor driver, a technitian could check and maybe adjust a little the laser driver board (that synchronizes the motor) and clean the motor encoder (cannot be done by you - very delicate equipment).
This sensor should be cleaned (left front side, above the knife module) with alchohol.
This can be done by you.
If this didn't solve the problem... (plan b)
b) you should do a spinner motor check (from the diagnostics menu).
(menu, diagnostics, spinner test, start test, ... if I remember correctly, it is described in user manual). You could post the results displayed here to tell you if the spinner motor is not working propertly (cost to replace a faulty motor, is huge).
To be sure if motor is faulty, and not the motor driver, a technitian could check and maybe adjust a little the laser driver board (that synchronizes the motor) and clean the motor encoder (cannot be done by you - very delicate equipment).
Scan line displacement, faulty spinner. I believe you have the old type of spinner on ball bearing. Usually it will squeak wavy high pitch noises upon startup indicating rotation problems, put an ear on the machine and you will understand better if the spinner noise is smooth and even or not. With such image artifacts I would imagine the spinner squealing like hell.
Don't even think of taking the spinner apart it's just a waste of time you won't be able to properly re-balance that rotor, ever. It's not that expensive to replace as spapa suggests, and you can look for a second hand spinner in good condition as well.
Cleaning the SOL sensor doesn't usually solve such a severe problem especially it's been showing for quite a while as you say.
I would suggest you contact the local ECRM dealer to properly troubleshoot the machine. If spinner is air-bearing type, replace with a new one. Could also be the spinner driver board etc. Again, it's best to seek competent advice, have a qualified engineer inspect the machine will tell you immediately what's all about.
Don't even think of taking the spinner apart it's just a waste of time you won't be able to properly re-balance that rotor, ever. It's not that expensive to replace as spapa suggests, and you can look for a second hand spinner in good condition as well.
Cleaning the SOL sensor doesn't usually solve such a severe problem especially it's been showing for quite a while as you say.
I would suggest you contact the local ECRM dealer to properly troubleshoot the machine. If spinner is air-bearing type, replace with a new one. Could also be the spinner driver board etc. Again, it's best to seek competent advice, have a qualified engineer inspect the machine will tell you immediately what's all about.
First I want thank you for the answers.
The trouble began in January of this year, when i look the film and verify that are a light stripes from left to right on 80% screening. You can see on attachment 01.jpg .
These light stripes were not always present, so we continued the work. Afther defect is changed and make work impossible. You can see on attachment 02.jpg and 03.jpg.
Then we called a qualified engineer. This man have cleaned a lens near a film side, on the right looking by laser (laser SOL sensor i think), after he has checked the voltages on the card and corrected a tension that was 0.5 V lower.
@spapa
The engineer also checked >menu, diagnostics, spinner test, start test etc.< and was amazed at the perfection of the values.
Finally adjusted the laser BIAS and corrected two trimmers on laser group. That's all.
Mako now works well, but sometimes has a not previously presented defect.
Yo can see on 04.jpg. It seems that the points are deformed from left to right.
Now i think that first defect is a laser and that last defect is a spinner.
But I still don't understand why the Mako controls (>menu, diagnostics, spinner test, start test etc.<) give the correct values??!!
The fault now is really unusual, but when it si present on 64x44 film is a waste of money.
The engineer says that the LASER/SPINNER group is at the end of life.. What do you think?
Thanks
The trouble began in January of this year, when i look the film and verify that are a light stripes from left to right on 80% screening. You can see on attachment 01.jpg .
These light stripes were not always present, so we continued the work. Afther defect is changed and make work impossible. You can see on attachment 02.jpg and 03.jpg.
Then we called a qualified engineer. This man have cleaned a lens near a film side, on the right looking by laser (laser SOL sensor i think), after he has checked the voltages on the card and corrected a tension that was 0.5 V lower.
@spapa
The engineer also checked >menu, diagnostics, spinner test, start test etc.< and was amazed at the perfection of the values.
Finally adjusted the laser BIAS and corrected two trimmers on laser group. That's all.
Mako now works well, but sometimes has a not previously presented defect.
Yo can see on 04.jpg. It seems that the points are deformed from left to right.
Now i think that first defect is a laser and that last defect is a spinner.
But I still don't understand why the Mako controls (>menu, diagnostics, spinner test, start test etc.<) give the correct values??!!
The fault now is really unusual, but when it si present on 64x44 film is a waste of money.
The engineer says that the LASER/SPINNER group is at the end of life.. What do you think?
Thanks
Attachments
Last edited:
spapa
Member
@maxon: I have not seen ball bearing spinners (the aluminum color ones) in Mako series, only in VR(L) (older ones). I do not know if at the beginning of them, factory used those old motors.
@Aristide: the spinner motor was a black one? It may need the encoder on it's back to be cleaned. This is required in places with cigarette smoke or polluted air environment.
To check a bit, the laser controlling ability of your machine:
Do you have a TestPattern #2 printed out?
If no: menu->user->test patters->test pattern#2, use your normal exposure value and resolution to print one. Do not expect it to finish automatically (it will print 1,5meters), stop it after it has print 20cm, with the STOP key.
@Aristide: the spinner motor was a black one? It may need the encoder on it's back to be cleaned. This is required in places with cigarette smoke or polluted air environment.
of course it is! After so many years...Aristide said:
To check a bit, the laser controlling ability of your machine:
Do you have a TestPattern #2 printed out?
If no: menu->user->test patters->test pattern#2, use your normal exposure value and resolution to print one. Do not expect it to finish automatically (it will print 1,5meters), stop it after it has print 20cm, with the STOP key.
VladCanada
Well-known member
And who wants to ask where are slow scan and fast scan directions on pics?
... so far I assumed the banding/lines are across the film width because it doesn't make sense to consider it otherwise.The defect would have to be across the film. The causes in highest to lowest is spinner, SOL sensor, and then droop. Droop is pretty stable on the Mako's.
The encoder on the spinner is fairly well sealed and stays pretty clean. It is also delicate and easily damaged so take great care when attempting to clean. In my experience cleaning doesn't help.
The encoder on the spinner is fairly well sealed and stays pretty clean. It is also delicate and easily damaged so take great care when attempting to clean. In my experience cleaning doesn't help.
VladCanada
Well-known member
IMHO vertical (stand on) posture of Spinner with aerodynamical bearings construction - is the worst solution. The butt of spinner's rotor has constant friction contact with a stator's body besause that rotor is too heavy and that friction decreases spinner lifetime.
Worn-out ball bearings cause very obvious/evident jitter-effect, but SpeedRing/WestWind spinners - dont.
Worn-out ball bearings cause very obvious/evident jitter-effect, but SpeedRing/WestWind spinners - dont.
spapa
Member
If you have a look at the last image on this message, it's pretty clear what direction is the problem...
Yes, but before throw away the spinner, worth a try...
I still not understand a thing.
Before engineer i had one kind of problem. It seemed that the laser had problems but I never seen problems like those that exist now.
I, before engineer, did not deformation of pellets into screen... never.
After engineer i have those situation that you see in new attachements.
I also tell you that the spinner does not generate any noise at startup.
This was also observed by engineer....
Thanks
Before engineer i had one kind of problem. It seemed that the laser had problems but I never seen problems like those that exist now.
I, before engineer, did not deformation of pellets into screen... never.
After engineer i have those situation that you see in new attachements.
I also tell you that the spinner does not generate any noise at startup.
This was also observed by engineer....
Thanks
Attachments
Was the problem better after the tech worked on it and now have become worse over time?
Without knowing exactly what the technician did, it is hard to say for sure what happened. When you try to compensate for a failing component it sometimes exposes other issues. If the situation has been getting progressively worse, then it points back to the spinner as the primary issue. Spinners don't always become noisy. There may also be an issue with the laser but i couldn't tell without seeing a magnified view of the film. They tend to get worse as time goes on. In my experience, it is rare for either one to fail completely in an ECRM.
The only way this issue is going to be resolved is to have a tech come in and repair it. If you don't have faith in the original tech, find another. Unless you are very lucky and only need a SOL sensor, you are probably looking at an expensive repair.
Without knowing exactly what the technician did, it is hard to say for sure what happened. When you try to compensate for a failing component it sometimes exposes other issues. If the situation has been getting progressively worse, then it points back to the spinner as the primary issue. Spinners don't always become noisy. There may also be an issue with the laser but i couldn't tell without seeing a magnified view of the film. They tend to get worse as time goes on. In my experience, it is rare for either one to fail completely in an ECRM.
The only way this issue is going to be resolved is to have a tech come in and repair it. If you don't have faith in the original tech, find another. Unless you are very lucky and only need a SOL sensor, you are probably looking at an expensive repair.
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VladCanada
Well-known member
The image shift caused by SOL sensor will never create such a kind of spiral pattern which looks like "Santa stick candy".
That's very complicated timing/synchro issue from both scan (fast and slow) encoders.
We are really need internal test pattern to look at.
That's very complicated timing/synchro issue from both scan (fast and slow) encoders.
We are really need internal test pattern to look at.
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this is the controller board
Today i have printed how many meters of film, and to end i remember to print "test pattern#2" for spapa.
I want you note that all today printed film No one ever reported defect.
The difference is that today I printed at 1270 dpi 130 lpi, usually I print at 2540 dpi 175 lpi
So, the "spapa test" print a horizontal strips to 0 to 34,5 cm and a screen to 34,5 to 46 cm.
The screen is perfect, and also strips are perfect.
But you can see a light strips shade that enters on screen.
I have scanning the film, but in scanned image you cant appreciate this imperfection.
So i take a pictures of film on the light table, you can see it in attachments.
Attachments
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spapa
Member
The test#2 you posted is good. This meens your laser electronic board is calibrated/working correctly (no droop problem). What resolution is this test that you printed?
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All the errors that you have seen, are jobs transmitted from the RIP (and various components included in this path). If machine starts to make problems more offen (I hope never do this), try a test pattern#4 (it's a square patterns test with thin lines).
The internal test will not include RIP,SCSI card, cable,Pelbox electronic board and will help to make sure if the problem is in the Mako machine or the data trasfering path.
--------------
All the errors that you have seen, are jobs transmitted from the RIP (and various components included in this path). If machine starts to make problems more offen (I hope never do this), try a test pattern#4 (it's a square patterns test with thin lines).
The internal test will not include RIP,SCSI card, cable,Pelbox electronic board and will help to make sure if the problem is in the Mako machine or the data trasfering path.
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