EskoArtworks, Equinox?

[Stephen Marsh]

If there is no increased gamut gained upon converting from cmyk to cmyk++, than you really only added complexity to the printing process.

Meddington, I respectfully disagree, this is not what the Spotless software or process is designed to achieve.

The idea is not to increase gamut of images that are currently in gamut. If there are *no* spot colours in the CMYK image then there is no need to introduce spot inks into the images with this CMYK+++ system. If there *are* spot colours used in rasters or vectors, then these spots will be replaced with whatever CMYK+++ inks are required to match or come close to the original spot ink.

If the Spotless system was not using the full CMYK set in addition to spots, then there may be need to introduce a spot into a previously CMYK only image. If the Spotless implementation only used CK+++, then perhaps a spot red may be used for areas that would have contained MY in the original.

What has been done is that it is now possible to remove one or more "spot" Pantone inks used in the original artwork and achieve the "same" colour using an extended process ink set - without having to use the original spot ink on press.


Stephen Marsh

 

[meddington]

Thanks for that further clarification Stephen. I was assuming Cmyk only raster elements upon input, an that's not what you had described. I would still be careful upon any of the scenarios you mention however, particularly with conventional screening, jobs with gradients or complex trapping pushed through a late-binding workflow.

 

[Stephen Marsh]

Meddington, I only know of one site locally that uses Spotless. As mentioned earlier in the thread, they print metal cans (mostly paint cans), most of the spot colours that they have to match are different blues. None of the art they are supplied has spot colours in the photographs, the spot colours are used for panels, text and logos. This is why they use a CMYKOV ink set. They also print FM screen (I can't recall if 20 or 10 micron). Spotless allows them to print with the same standard 6 colour ink set, without having to perform wash ups between different jobs for different spot/brand colours. Gordo has listed other benefits earlier in the thread. This is a late binding workflow and they have been using it for years.


Stephen Marsh

Thanks for that further clarification Stephen. I was assuming Cmyk only raster elements upon input, an that's not what you had described. I would still be careful upon any of the scenarios you mention however, particularly with conventional screening, jobs with gradients or complex trapping pushed through a late-binding workflow.

 

[Bradleyp]

As I wrote, Opaltone does not work with the Pantone library instead they have their own library of screen tint builds. If a patch happens to match a color in the Pantone library then you could use that recipe.

Just in follow-up, I emailed Jim Lewandowski <[email protected]>
They're an Opaltone printer in Phoenix. Here's his response:

"Yes, you can convert PMS to Opaltone with Opaltone plugins in Photoshop and Illustrator.
Opaltone has a plugin in Photoshop to enhance images to CMYK to CMYKRGB.
Yes, we have a 6-color Opaltone Proofer with CMYRGB (no K) inks. It matches on press to within 95%.
Yes, we are an offset printer.
Opaltone does work on ganging jobs. We put Opaltone inks in the press and only change plates all day."

Nice to hear feedback from an actual expanded gamut user.

Brad.

 

[gordo]

Just in follow-up, I emailed Jim Lewandowski <[email protected]>
They're an Opaltone printer in Phoenix. Here's his response:

"Yes, you can convert PMS to Opaltone with Opaltone plugins in Photoshop and Illustrator."

Nice to hear feedback from an actual expanded gamut user.

Brad.

I agree, but I don't think that it contradicts what I originally wrote:

"As I wrote, Opaltone does not work with the Pantone library instead they have their own library of screen tint builds. If a patch happens to match a color in the Pantone library then you could use that recipe."

The other solutions don't have their own library of spot colors like Opaltone does - they work with any library of spot colors that reference L*a*b* values.

gordo

 

[Bradleyp]

Opaltone does not work with the Pantone library instead they have their own library of screen tint builds. If a patch happens to match a color in the Pantone library then you could use that recipe.

FYI, their software can directly convert PMS to CMYKRGB as well.

Brad.

 

[gordo]

FYI, their software can directly convert PMS to CMYKRGB as well.

Brad.

Thanks, must of updated their software. Do you know how they do this?

gordo

 

[Bradleyp]

Thanks, must of updated their software. Do you know how they do this?

Looks like it's done via their 'VK' RIP? Just found this online:
http://imi.maine.com/pdf/DigitalPrinting2020/SuppliersForum/Opaltone.pdf

Brad.

 

[gordo]

Looks like it's done via their 'VK' RIP? Just found this online:
http://imi.maine.com/pdf/DigitalPrinting2020/SuppliersForum/Opaltone.pdf

Brad.

OK, that's still only for inkjet printing, which we've talked about earlier, and not for flexo or offset.


gordo

 

[Bradleyp]

OK, that's still only for inkjet printing, which we've talked about earlier, and not for flexo or offset.

Probably best to ask <[email protected]> direct? He's an offset Opaltone printer.

"Yes, you can convert PMS to Opaltone with Opaltone plugins in Photoshop and Illustrator.
Opaltone has a plugin in Photoshop to enhance images to CMYK to CMYKRGB.
Yes, we have a 6-color Opaltone Proofer with CMYRGB (no K) inks. It matches on press to within 95%.
Yes, we are an offset printer.
Opaltone does work on ganging jobs. We put Opaltone inks in the press and only change plates all day."

Not sure why you think "convert PMS to Opaltone" is just for inkjet?

Brad.

 

[gordo]

Not sure why you think "convert PMS to Opaltone" is just for inkjet?

Brad.

Because inkjet printing is the only print method that Opaltone refers to on their website and in the presentation. E.g. In the presentation, all the output devices are inkjet, even the presses. I'll contact them directly and see what they say.

Gordo

 

[gordo]

First off, thanks Bradleyp for pursuing this thread.

I contacted Matthew Bernasconi who is the Director of Opaltone Inc. North America.

Here's what he told me about Opaltone and Pantone -

Opaltone has a proprietary range of named colors made up of screen tint builds based on their proprietary 7/C inkset. A designer would import that library into their authoring application and specify spot colors from that library much as they would using the Pantone library.

They have OMS color books with corresponding digital swatches for Illustrator etc.
However, not many customers use these anymore since they’ve mapped the PMS library.

All PMS colors must be saved as ‘SPOT’ (not Process) in the Illustrator file. their RIP then applies the screen tint recipes. For a plate file, the PMS LUTs (Look Up Tables) must be exported from their RIP. The prepress company then Imports the LUTs to apply the PMS > CMYKRGB (or CMYRGB) within Prinergy, Packedge or Artpro.

So the designer specifies their Pantone color as usual in their authoring app but when their file is Ripped Opaltone's screen tint recipes replace Pantone's.

The OMS recipes are not based on Pantone's L*a*b* values. Each spot color is pre-assigned a recipe build in the LUT. There is no ICC ‘conversion’ involved.
The press (flexo, gravure, offset, inkjet, digital – it doesn’t matter) must first be calibrated to the OT7 standard Opaltone - OT7 Calibration
The proof must match the OT7 target.
The print must match the OT7 target.
Only then will the proof/print match to each other.

The same process occurs with non-Pantone brand colors. Customers can build/edit any spot colors they like:
1. Find the nearest match in PMS (or OMS) book.
2. Enter ‘starting’ recipes into RIP.
3. Print a small set of ‘recipe’ swatches (to locate the L*a*b* value of brand color).
4. Enter recipes for corresponding L*a*b* value into the RIP.

At present, no ICC software exists that can (accurately) produce multi-color recipes from a given L*a*b* value. Trust me, we’ve tried them all

To see how Opaltone works for HiFi raster images see: http://opaltone.com/movies/Opaltone CX5.mov

On a sidebar, I suggested that Opaltone update their website and massage their marketing materials to more clearly explain their products. He agreed.

 

[Bradleyp]

First off, thanks Bradleyp for pursuing this thread.

No, thank you Gordo for posting this info direct from OEM. Finally starting to make sense. Yes, their website is a bit ambiguous.

Brad.

 

[zman]

Hey folks, need to convert a Esko (ColorStrategy) multicolor native profile to an ICC so I can use in my EFI 4.5 rip and output to my extended gamma Epson 7900. Or do I have to start over and print a new press form with charts and create multicolor ICC in (ProfileMaker 5) etc. In ColorPilot it only shows export of cmyk or device link to remote site with native workflow. Any thoughts (danpulling, Gordo, ).